....Tactical scotch tape-ALL THE WAY!!actually-didnt want to use the 'one time stick' velcro till I was sure which grip I liked best
.........tactical scotch tape.......
PDW builds - Lets see them, and share results
- Thread starter AbHobbyist
- Start date
....Tactical scotch tape-ALL THE WAY!!actually-didnt want to use the 'one time stick' velcro till I was sure which grip I liked best
.........tactical scotch tape.......
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Fugly, yep, shiite ergos, definitely not- Tavor handles as well as any other rifle, AUG as well. Fugly, and it works very well. Plus, in a package very similar in size to what I'm seeing called PDW's here you're getting full rifle ballistics, using AR mags. A PDW is a P90 or MP7, these are micro-carbines, and a Tavor is going to make an AR look pretty questionable in that class.
Debate makes the world go 'round, I know I won't be popular in this thread.
TSE_Justin
Offical The Shooting Edge Rep.
That's because you're a lefty
I held a Tavor last weekend and I must say it points amazing. The balance is truly one of a kind. I find it holds really steady on target, much easier than an AR15.
My only gripe is the trigger has alot of creep and feels mushy.
I also like to extend my arms farther than the average person making it very difficult to do so with the Tavor.
the_klenzer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
Fugly, yep, shiite ergos, definitely not- Tavor handles as well as any other rifle, AUG as well. Fugly, and it works very well. Plus, in a package very similar in size to what I'm seeing called PDW's here you're getting full rifle ballistics, using AR mags. A PDW is a P90 or MP7, these are micro-carbines, and a Tavor is going to make an AR look pretty questionable in that class.
Debate makes the world go 'round, I know I won't be popular in this thread.
I'm on board with most everything you said, plus non-restricted is a bonus.
Fugly, yep, shiite ergos, definitely not- Tavor handles as well as any other rifle, AUG as well. Fugly, and it works very well. Plus, in a package very similar in size to what I'm seeing called PDW's here you're getting full rifle ballistics, using AR mags. A PDW is a P90 or MP7, these are micro-carbines, and a Tavor is going to make an AR look pretty questionable in that class.
Debate makes the world go 'round, I know I won't be popular in this thread.
You're the only one 'pitching' the micro-carbine angle to be sure. Is this something you're self-promoting or does it have merit in fact? Meaning, does military type classification support your assumptions?
That's because you're a lefty
I think Suputin is saying he likes all the s**t that blows out of the AR ejection port into his face.
Mark
I think Suputin is saying he likes all the s**t that blows out of the AR ejection port into his face.
Mark
Oh-oh...now you've done it. Those are fightin' words.
He shoots a .300/.221 so I don't think he'd experience that as much as the guys shooting 5.56mm.
Or, he's potentially less likely to, in any event.
Oh-oh...now you've done it. Those are fightin' words.
He shoots a .300/.221 so I don't think he'd experience that as much as the guys shooting 5.56mm.
The configuration we shoot tends to blow crap back in the shooters face regardless. Mark got to experience that first hand.
That is why I have embraced the 3Bucc brass catcher. It doubles rather effectively as a barrier against gas in the face.
Next time I'll bring the Whisper we will see if he has any complaints after experiencing that little slice of heaven.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You've got me lost on your meaning here, no I have no commercial or employment angle that I benefit in any way for 'pitching' what I feel a 7" AR is, and I'm not military or industry using them at work (I presume none of us, but KevinB, are using 7" range ARs as part of our job). My only 'real world' experience with this, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is being a civilian helicopter pilot and realizing through nothing more than imagination my long since sold 7" 9mm carbine would have been useless trying to use, and get it out of the cockpit. I've ridden quite a few miles in trucks in Africa with carbines, and even an AK underfolder would be too big to consider a PDW and it's smaller than a 10.5"" AR (it's the same length as a 7" AR from what I can tell).
My reasoning follows: If a 14.5" is a carbine, a 7" is a micro-carbine, I'm not sure how to get further into that reasoning or make it clearer. An MP7 or P90, genuine PDWs, aren't viewed as carbines, where to me, and I would hazard a guess anyone with a tape measure a super short AR is. Seeing as an AR can only be shrunk on barrel length, to get smaller (without a buffer tubeless system like KAC) you have to compromise performance severely. And even at the extreme, 7", you're barely smaller than a Tavor but have given up an obscene amount in range and velocity, all the while becoming obscene in another category, blast!
There's just no "win" unless you simply like the way it looks, Suputin's more barrel appropriate .300-221 aside. But for what I would hazard all of us use guns like this in Canada for, playing, it's all good and if you like ARs and have lots of parts for them that's reason enough (as mentioned I've built a "micro carbine" at 7" too, but it was 9mm). Sticking the PDW moniker on something over two feet long with savage blast and meager velocity is a pretty hard stretch. Micro carbine, for me, it is. Get under 20" (chest width) and with less blast, and you have a PDW. If a micro-AR carbine is a PDW, so is a Tavor, and so is an AK underfolder, both vastly more effective firearms and one of them non-restricted to boot. I don't feel any of the above are PDWs however.
All the best.
-Angus
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Is there really going to be a substantial difference between a PS90 (5.7x28mm), MP7 (4.6x30mm) and 7" AR (5.56mm)? The MP7 is probably the most compact but certainly has more recoil than the other two. When NEA releases their new PDW stock these 7" ARs have the potential to an overall length of about 2' collapsed. That's not bad at all...
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Highest recoil without a doubt is the 7" AR, the MP7 is nearly recoiless (see video below), as is the P90. The MP7 is the better part of a foot shorter than a 7" AR, the two aren't even rightly comparable. There is an enormous difference in handling and ease of carriage between the two PDWs and the micro carbine AR. The AR's a helluva gun, likely my favourite black rifle, but a PDW it is not nor does it make a very good one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk37O80I07M
The configuration we shoot tends to blow crap back in the shooters face regardless. Mark got to experience that first hand.
That is why I have embraced the 3Bucc brass catcher. It doubles rather effectively as a barrier against gas in the face.
Next time I'll bring the Whisper we will see if he has any complaints after experiencing that little slice of heaven.
No complaints after the first run, but I was surprised how much junk comes back at the shooter in FA, I was covered in black gunk and my eyes were streaming from the gases. Even bump firing doesn't generate the same effect with a semi. How anybody shoots FA in combat without glasses on (goggles would be even better) is beyond me.
I look forward to trying the Whisper setup, I am sure it will spoil me for anything else.
Mark
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Reminds me how certain thoughts connect to sensations, feelings, etc. When I think full auto I think of the stink of powder and stinging eyes, and lubricant/fouling mix splatter no matter how little's in the action to start. That and reloading dirty mags.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Honestly, I've owned all three; the PS90 is the only one that's virtually recoilless; my MP7 had more recoil than my 7" AR (then again, I was running a Enidine buffer on it, too). Maybe in full auto there's more of a difference, but we don't get the 'fun' selectors to play around with...
In terms of overall length, once you extend the stock on the MP7 you're @ 25.1". With a 7" AR and the NEA PDW stock you'll be @ about 25-26". The ammunition for the PS90 and MP7 is also somewhat exotic (not the easiest to reload from what I understand). Cost is another factor. Magazine changes aren't exactly the easiest on the PS90, either.
Given the 10-round capacity we currently enjoy for an AR, I'd take a 8" AR in 6.8SPC any day over the PS90 and MP7.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I'm running a PWS CQB on mine, but I haven't measured the overall length lately. If I had to hazard a guess I'd put it around the 26" mark (will have to remember to check that next time I have it out).
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
First off, I knew you have had/do have some impressive toys, but I'm impressed you've had one of the unbelievably rare few MP7's in Canada, never even chatted with anyone who's had one. I think I see where our opinion rift comes from, I mentioned earlier I see PDWs as being carry 99%, fight 1%, viewing it from aircrew's perspective. I would never take the MP7's length with the stock extended, that spec doesn't mean anything in my eyes as a PDW is carried hopefully 100% of the time and never fights (though we would all agree, when it does, it should be mighty capable). It needs to be right tiny and sleek for its intended use, NATO spec.
Second, 6.8's going to make a ton more sense in a short barrel, and I would own a micro AR so chambered. Getting 9mm carbine energy from a .223 with a ton more noise gives me no satisfaction or warm feelings. I like the look of NEA's short buffer, coupled with a barrel over 10" in 6.8 that would be a mean little carbine. Even better, one of the short Tavors, no stocks to extend or unfold, awesome ergos, and unbelievably small (AR mags too).
