PDW builds - Lets see them, and share results

When it comes to PDW's, I am an absolute sucker for the P90 platform.

I have never had experience with the MP7, nor likely will I due to the scarceness of them, but they would be an excellent second.

The P90 was the mother of all firearms rethinks. Truely rethought what and how the firearm worked. I love mine, just a shame I can not have 50 in the mag as per the design to make up for the lack of cartridge power.
 
You're right in that people consider it hideous because it's a near complete diversion from the norms. Rounded, odd looking grips, longitudinal mag, bullpup etc etc. If the P90 was 'normal' people would love its flowing lines, smooth surfaces and ergos. If the AR then came out as a new fangled invention it would be hideous. It's allll what you're used to, I'm a sucker for high end sporting rifles and I'm guilty of biases on beauty norms more than most.
 
haha... im glad im not the only one who calls them micro carbines... If I had my choice for pdw its ps90 all the way though, assuming i can keep the 50 rnd mags and selective fire of course
 
Ardent said:
I think I see where our opinion rift comes from, I mentioned earlier I see PDWs as being carry 99%, fight 1%, viewing it from aircrew's perspective. I would never take the MP7's length with the stock extended, that spec doesn't mean anything in my eyes as a PDW is carried hopefully 100% of the time and never fights (though we would all agree, when it does, it should be mighty capable).
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Thanks. The MP7 isn't as stable to shoot with the stock collapsed, but the vertical grip does help. For a pistol-caliber PDW, I would probably put my money on the Kriss Super-V or one of the Glock conversion kits like the Hera GCC (my personal favourite for a G17).

Kevin M. said:
The P90 was the mother of all firearms rethinks. Truely rethought what and how the firearm worked. I love mine, just a shame I can not have 50 in the mag as per the design to make up for the lack of cartridge power.
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The PS90 is a blast to shoot. The only pet peeve was switching magazines (although this would probably be less of an issue if we could run them in full capacity). Full auto would probably be a riot on this sucker!
 
Really like my PS90 as well. Mag limit blows and cost of ammo but a lot of fun to shoot. I consider it a true PDW firearm.

As for 9mm. CX4 storm was my choice over an AR. Although the first AR15 I ever shot was a 9mm and was a lot of fun.

I think the Storm in 40 S&W with the web and sight hoods removed would make a pretty good PDW firearm.
 
With a 7" AR and the NEA PDW stock you'll be @ about 25-26".
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The test model was 24" tip to tip with a 4.5" can mounted. With a more conventional muzzle device you are looking closer to 21-22" OAL with the stock collapsed. Its fricken TINY.

I agree that 556 is not even close to the best cartridge for use in a short barreled PDW carbine. The thing I am not wild about with the purpose built PDW cartridges is their limited wounding potential. IMHO the 300 Whisper is by far the best choice. It can deliver a massive amount of energy and wounding potential in a very large projectile without losing velocity when used in a short barrel. You really have to try one to understand I think.
 
If ~26" makes a PDW, this was my latest. :redface: Just being a twerp, the Whisper/Black has my attention as of late Suputin.

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Suputin said:
IMHO the 300 Whisper is by far the best choice. It can deliver a massive amount of energy and wounding potential in a very large projectile without losing velocity when used in a short barrel. You really have to try one to understand I think.
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I gotta get a 300 upper from you and Striker66, and then get the pdw stock...
 
Suputin said:
The test model was 24" tip to tip with a 4.5" can mounted. With a more conventional muzzle device you are looking closer to 21-22" OAL with the stock collapsed. Its fricken TINY.

I agree that 556 is not even close to the best cartridge for use in a short barreled PDW carbine. The thing I am not wild about with the purpose built PDW cartridges is their limited wounding potential. IMHO the 300 Whisper is by far the best choice. It can deliver a massive amount of energy and wounding potential in a very large projectile without losing velocity when used in a short barrel. You really have to try one to understand I think.
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That's even more impressive then (I was just guestimating based on the length of a 9" HK416c). Pretty sure I'd be under 24" with mine then. 300 Whisper is an interesting caliber; but as I'm not into reloading I think 6.8SPC probably fits the bill for me.
 
What are the real world advantages of 300 whisper over 7.62x39? I can't find any besides using subsonics. 7.62x39 doesn't suffer as 5.56 does out of short barrels, it's way more plentiful and you can load 154 grain soft points in it. Is the only real advantage that it uses stanag mags?
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
What are the real world advantages of 300 whisper over 7.62x39? I can't find any besides using subsonics. 7.62x39 doesn't suffer as 5.56 does out of short barrels, it's way more plentiful and you can load 154 grain soft points in it. Is the only real advantage that it uses stanag mags?
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Smaller bolt face required leaving more material on the bolt which can be a source of breakage in a 7.62x39 AR. In caliber conversions you don't need to change the bolt either as it identical to .223/5.56.
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
What are the real world advantages of 300 whisper over 7.62x39? I can't find any besides using subsonics. 7.62x39 doesn't suffer as 5.56 does out of short barrels, it's way more plentiful and you can load 154 grain soft points in it. Is the only real advantage that it uses stanag mags?
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- Superior selection and choice of bullet types in .308" vs .311" bore diameters.
- Greater efficiency. Smaller case yielding similar velocities compared to 7.62x39mm.
- Case design. For North American shooters anyone shooting a .223 Rem. rifle can quickly convert their existing rifle (AR or otherwise) to .300 Blackout without having to worry about modifying bolt heads and magazines to accomodate the new cartridge.
- Better ballistics when using shorter barrel lenghts.
- Greater degree of flexibility and commercial availability of sporting ammunition for various purposes.

Just to name a few.
 
Ok, besides the AR platform advantages, aren't all 303 and 7.62x54 bullets .311" as well? You can get heavier bullets in .311" and I find the vz58 platform to be much more robust than the AR platform. For me, I'll skip the 300 whisper. I'll take cheaper more plentiful ammo in a more robust platform.
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
Ok, besides the AR platform advantages, aren't all 303 and 7.62x54 bullets .311" as well? You can get heavier bullets in .311" and I find the vz58 platform to be much more robust than the AR platform. For me, I'll skip the 300 whisper. I'll take cheaper more plentiful ammo in a more robust platform.
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The variety of 308 bullets far exceeds that in the 311 size.

Not sure how robustness factors in unless you are planning to beat moose to death with your PDW. The beauty of the AR platform is its modular nature in almost every facet makes it much more adaptable and tunable.

Try tuning the buffer weight and recoil spring rate in any comblock weapon. The parts simply do not exist. On the other hand it is possible to buy or make parts to tune the ARs recoil system for use with subsonic ammo.

Get into the gas system and an AR has system length and port size or has block can also be easily tuned where the combloc rifle is stuck with what it came from the factory with. That means reliable subsonic operation will be extremely difficult to achieve.
 
Clobbersauras said:
This thread is drifting, but........


If there's a will, there's a way....
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Cool vids.

I don't recall anyone ever saying that you can't make subsonic 7.62x39mm work. There's just not that much info out there on the topic because the majority of people shooting the cartridge have no interest reloading for it because surplus ammo is so cheap relatively speaking. That's on top of the already meager choice of heavy weight bullets in .311" that may or may not feed well through AK type magazines.

Besides, isn't the AK a waste of time for us to even discuss in the first place? I don't own a CSA/VZ/Whatevertheycallthemselvestoday carbine so I don't know if subs will even function through this platform. Do you? Has anyone here on CGN or elsewhere even tried? It'd be a cool experiment to try and I'm sure the info would be extremely useful for those who see the benefit in using subsonic ammo with this platform.

There's at least some data available for reduced capacity loads in SKS's but that's another topic all together and has little relevance to the topic at hand.

At least with the .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout/ .300-.221, et al...there's tons of reloading data available based on easily obtained components that will give you near instant results.

Oh? You don't reload? TFB for you then, huh? Commercially available subsonic 7.62x39mm ammo is non-existent in Kanada and few options are available even state-side.

At least with .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout you have at least (1) offering (Hornady 208gr A-MAX load) now in Kanada and possibly more if Gravel Agencies decides to come to the party and import factory Remington ammunition in the .300 Blackout.

For all intents and purposes, the .300 Blackout is the clear choice for subsonic .30 cal. literally by default.
 
I am not specifically familiar with the CZ/VZ family of rifles but the AK vents high pressure gas to the atmosphere which makes it LOUD no matter what ammo is fired through it. It will never get below the 140 dB hearing safe limit.

The AR with its gas impingement system meters much quieter when running subsonic suppressed. I have seen numbers down around 130 dB with a fairly small can and others are reporting numbers in the mid to high 120's with longer cans. No current piston operated rifle will ever get close to that.
 
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