A rather nice No. 5 and Lanchester smg.

[drm3m]

I have posted this stuff before, but I thought that I would do it again.
A 1960's purchase by my Father.
This is more about the stock than anything else.

No.5. Mk.1.
Serial number-BB 9724.
Manufactured by BSA Shirley in 1945.

David

Not a great bayonet....but the only one I have. (Poole manufactured dated 1946)

Additional markings on the bayonet.

For what it is worth?

BAYONETS:
Wartime production was carried out by four manufacturers: Wilkinson Sword Co, London - 188,354; Viners Ltd., Sheffield – 42,000; Radcliffe – 75,000; and Elkington & Co. Ltd., Birmingham – 10,768.
An unknown quantity were produced post-war at the Royal Ordinance Factory, Poole.(My bayonet)
Wilkinson marked their No. 5 bayonets with the initials “W.S.C.” and/or their dispersal code “S294”. Viners marked theirs with “VNS” or their dispersal code “N79”. Radcliffe (about which very little is known) marked theirs with their dispersal code, “N187”. Elkington marked theirs with their dispersal code, “M78”.
Post-war ROF, Poole bayonets are marked with a “P” inside a small circle. (My bayonet)



This is the only other British gun that I own.
Mk.1 Lanchester smg. (Sterling manufactured in 1942.)

 

[rdgietz]

That is a nice #5....

RDG

 

[TheTooner]

That's a nice Lanchester, too.

 

[stevejones]

Very nice! I have to say the best #5 I've ever seen. I'm not familiar with the SMG though. Is it the same Sterling used in the Canadian Army but with a wood stock? I fired one a few times in the 70's but it had a collapsible/folding metal stock. Too much fun!

Cheers! Steve.

 

[drm3m]

Thanks Steve,

The same Sterling company I believe.
Here is probably more information than you wanted to know.

David

The Four Lanchester Assemblers:

Lanchester assembly contracts were actually awarded to three firms:
Sterling (two plants) Total production until October 1943 – 74,579.
Sterling assembly of the Lanchester was split between the Sterling Engineering Co Ltd in Dagenham (code marked S109) and the Sterling Armaments Company in North Hampton (code M619)

W W Greener – production 16,990
Boss & Co. – production 3,990


The Lanchester was a submachine gun used by the British during World War II. In 1940, with the Dunkirk evacuation completed, the Royal Air Force decided to adopt some form of submachine gun for airfield defense. With no time to spare for the development of a new weapon it was decided to adopt a direct copy of the German MP28II, captured examples of which were at hand for examination. The period was so desperate that the British Admiralty decided to join with the RAF in adopting the new weapon, and played a key role in its design. By a series of convoluted events, the Admiralty alone actually adopted Lanchester into service.

The British MP28 copy was given the general designation of Lanchester after George Lanchester who was charged with producing the weapon at the Sterling Armament Company, 'the same company that went on to produce the Sterling submachine gun that is presently the standard submachine gun of many nations'.

The Lanchester was envisioned as a weapon that could be used for guarding prisoners and accompanying naval landing and assault parties. It was a very solid, extremely heavy submachine gun, in many ways the complete opposite of its direct contemporary, the Sten. The Lanchester had a heavy wooden butt and stock, a machined steel action and breech block, and a magazine housing made from a favorite naval construction material, solid brass. A few details typical for the era were added, such as a mounting on the muzzle for use of a long bladed Pattern 1907 British bayonet. The rifling differed from the German original in details to accommodate various lots of 9mm ammunition then being acquired for service use. The magazine for the Lanchester was straight and carried a useful, if quite heavy capacity of 50 9mm cartridges. Stripping of cartridges into the magazine was aided by a catch on the top of the receiver. The very first model, the Lanchester Mk I, could fire either single shot or automatic. On the Lanchester Mk I* this was changed to full automatic fire only, and many Mk Is were converted to Mk I* standard at Royal Navy workshops. The Lanchester was an unashamed copy of a German design, but gave good service to the Royal Navy throughout the war and for some years after.

The Sterling code marking on this gun.

A photo of a Motor Gun Boat.

Steve the Sterling smg you remember is probably more like the gun shown on the cover of Peter Laidler's book shown below.

Some additional photos of this Lanchester smg.

 

[Capt.Canuck]

Really appreciate these posts.

Excellent photos and information, and museum quality pieces.





.

 

[wheaty]

The Sterling has been converted to Mk.1* as no selector switch. A very nice Lanchester and there was some issued in Canada as well. The Canadian ones have a 1/2 inch C arrow on the butt stock...

 

[Steve1987]

Thanks for sharing Drm3m,

I think you must have one of the nicest gun collections in Canada. Good photography skills as well!

Cheers,
-Steve

 

[drm3m]

Steve and others, thank you for your very generous comments.

My collecting interests have been somewhat mixed between U.S. Civil War stuff, WWII German, American, Russian, a few British pieces and one WWI Artillery Luger rig.

I do feel that good photos are important, and it was only because of my collection that I got into the photography thing.

David

 

[enefgee]

Beautiful specimens as always, thanks again for sharing them.

 

[easysauce]

that mk1 sterling looks AWESOME, didnt know that existed! for an early era smg it looks way better then the sten, i even like it aesthetically better then the mp44,
nice collection!

 

[drm3m]

easysauce,

The Lanchester was a very well made smg, probably over engineered and expensive to manufacture. (And heavy)
The Brits went the other way with the Sten....wisely so considering how the war was going in 1943.

The MP44 is a different gun completely designed for a different purpose.
A different animal, with a very different caliber.

David

 

[tplumtree]

What an awesome thread. I'm an avid reader on anything to do with the World Wars and my family is from England. It's a real treat to see an Allied firearm in such amazing condition that I knew absolutely nothing about. My grandfather was stationed at the airbase at Tangmere and was involved with base security and the insertion of agents into France on Lysander aircraft. Now in his early 90's he still won't tell us what his involvement with the SOE was, but may very well have used the Mk.1 Lanchester smg in his duties. Thanks for sharing this piece of history!

 

[albayo]

Beautiful pieces, makes me want a Lanchester for my collection.

 

[drm3m]

tplumtree,

Because your Grandfather was doing what he was doing during the war this stuff might seem quite different relative to the Lanchester story.

Who got the Lanchesters?

50,000 Lanchesters: (nearly all for the Royal Navy.) First contract June 13 1941.

The first order was supposed to be split 50-50 between the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, which did not happen.

By this time the British Army had supplies of the Thompson, and they made it quite clear that the Thompson was what they wanted, so the Army kept the Thompson.

The Royal Air Force would immediately receive the 2,000 newly acquired Smith & Wesson 9mm carbines (smgs), for the defense of aerodromes and airfields now springing up around the country.
(Ironically the RAF had originally requested a copy of the German MP38.)

Comment from Peter Laidler.

S&W designed a hideous 9mm SMG that the UK paid for, up front, in advance. It was totally unsuccessful and they were scrapped. Several examples still exist, including a couple at the Pattern Room and at Warminster.
But briefly, it ejected the empty cases downwards, through a tube at the rear of the magazine. Surely a jam waiting to happen I'd say! And true to form, it was.

Hard to find photos of this gun.

Ironic that the RAF wanted something similar to the MP38. (This is an MP40 not an MP38)
I suspect that the Sten smg was the answer.
Cheap to manufacture and easy to get into Allies' hands.

David

 

[tplumtree]

Thanks for the additional infor DRM3M! This is what I love about milsurp collecting, the history that goes along with each one of these pieces. Now I have some research to do...

 

[Brutus]

IIRC the earliest Lanchester had a rather expensive & heavy all brass ejection port and magazine housing, that was obviously changed in later models.
This SMG was used right up until the Korean War by naval forces. I can't remember if the RCN and/or the RN used it though at this time.

 

[tiriaq]

The brass magazine housing was standard throughout.

 

[drm3m]

The magazine housing is brass.
Unfortunately the finish has disappeared off many of these guns so people see the brass. They were not meant to look like that.

David

 

[Brutus]

The magazine housing is brass.
Unfortunately the finish has disappeared off many of these guns so people see the brass. They were not meant to look like that.

David

I get it. Thanks for the correction guys!
I'm sure the one displayed at the Citadel Hill Museum has lost it's original finish.

Cheers!