Cowboy Action rifle advice/opinion

[Vladivar]

First off, forgive any incorrect terminology, I am not a gun smith nor any kind of expert - just trying to get some opinions and advice from those of you more experienced than I am.

My question is around the difference between the Winchester 1866 and 1873 feed mechanisms and their ability to feed .38 special ammo.

If I understand it correctly, the big difference between the actions is how the round is lifted from the magazine and loaded into the chamber. The 1866 method is to pick up the round and feed it via a "ramp" which causes the round to transition at an angle. The 1873 however lifts the round from the magazine straight up horizontally to the chamber.

My question is - when using factory .38 special ammo (that will be slightly shorter than the .357 the rifles were designed for) which of the 2 actions is likely to feed more reliably when run at speed.

I have also noticed that adverts for 1866 rifles tend to list them as .38 special specifically where the 1873 tends to be advertised as .38/.357, would this indicate that the 1866 will by design be more suited to the .38 sp round?

Any opinion on what rifle to buy (Winchester/Uberti/Marlin etc) would also be welcome.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

 

[rhs]

The '66 and '73 use both use a toggle-link action that works the same. The round pops out of the magazine tube onto a lifter which lifts the round into position and then it is pushed in a straight line into the chamber by the bolt. The Marlins and Winchesters both use an angled path into the chamber. I can't speak to 38/357 since I use 44/40 and 45 Colt, but nothing runs slicker than a '66 or '73 action. Kits are available to short-stroke these actions to allow you to run them even quicker. As far as I know, Uberti is the only game in town for either of these models, and they don't come cheap. Of the other 2 options, Marlins 1894s would get the nod over Winchesters, either '92s or '94s. However, the quality on new Marlins is not great, and the Marlin '94 action has a known issue which might cause jams (google Marlin Jam). I run a Marlin Cowboy Classic Limited in 45 Colt and have not experienced any problems with it, but I don't put that many rounds through it. Also have a '66 carbine in 44/40 that I won't be parting with anytime soon. Best bet is to find a CAS shoot to attend and talk to some of the shooters about their hardware. Most will be happy to let you try their gear and give you opinions. Problem is that once you try one of the toggle-link actions, you won't be happy with anything else.

 

[Athrun[Zaft]

From my personal experience with the two rifles, the loading mechanism is fundamentally the same. Both feature the carrier block's direct vertical lift from magazine to chamber. I believe that the rifle you're thinking about which features the feed ramp is the model 1892. As far as the 1866 vs the 1873, it is my personal belief that the 1866 is superior only in appearances to the 1873. The '73 is an improved version of the '66, featuring easier disassembly and a sliding dust cover. Mind you, as far as a CAS shooter is concerned, aesthetics can mean a lot. That being said, the '66 is in many people's opinions a prettier firearm. As for Marlin/Winchester/Uberti, my major question would be to ask what your price range is. Marlins are great guns, and come a damned sight cheaper than either of their competitors and they're far lighter to boot, but quality has been spotty of late. Winchester doesn't produce an 1866 or an 1873, but they do offer an 1892. Winchesters are made by Miroku in Japan now. Quality is phenomenal, fit and finish is gorgeous, but the price matches. Finally, Uberti manufactures a damned good looking rifle. Their actions are slick, but triggers are heavy, and actions are EXTREMELY stiff out the box. As such, Ubertis shine best after having some love from a gunsmith. If you are looking for a good quality bargain price rifle, take a look at the Rossi 1892. The action is a tad rough, and fit and finish is not spectacular, but they offer a lightweight, high quality rifle at a price which is genuinely hard to beat. At any rate, buy it, shoot it and love it!

Snake Eye Samuel, SASS 90041.

 

[Cagunman]

The one diffrence that hasn't been mentionned is the lever safety on the 73. There is a small button under the lever of the 73, the rifle won't fire if the lever isn't completely pressing that button down. Some like it, some don't. Chaparral is another manufacturer of 66 and 73s, you can see them at Marstar.
I have a Uberti 66, my buddy has a Chaparral 66, the difference is readily apparent but there is a $400 price difference, I know of 2 shooters that shoot Chaparrals and they're very happy with them. Uberti makes a great reproduction, in fact it's so good that they actually reproduce the gun with its original flaws, the loading gate will fail on you very quickly mine went after 20 rounds. As it was mentionned earlier they shine after some TLC from a good CAS gunsmith.
I started with a Rossi 92 still have it and still love it, most of the 38/357 rifles are OAL sensitive, factory .38 are a little short if you reload then you can keep em longer mine are at 1.5" OAL. Rossi isn't making the 92 anymore, the new ones are from Winchester and Chiappa both are expensive over $1000.
As it was suggested head to a CAS shoot and talk to some of the shooters there you'll see and hear all there is to know plus you'll be offrered the chance to handle and shoot em. Then you'll know.
Best of luck!
I'll be in Barrie in July, maybe I'll you there.
Keep your Powder dry Pard!

Frenchy

 

[jdawg]

The reason the 1866 is 38 only is due to the weaker brass receiver

 

[Tuco Pike]

I'll be in Barrie in July, maybe I'll see you there.
Keep your Powder dry Pard!

Frenchy

Oh no, Frenchy is coming to the SASS Central Canadian Championships? Coming up with Doc Rowland?

The reason the 1866 is 38 only is due to the weaker brass receiver

I have heard this as well. You can't go wrong with an Uberti 73. The short stroke kit on them makes them work like a dream. Started with the Puma 92, night and day different.

 

[docthompson]

CAS Carbines

Howdy all,
I shoot a Uberti 73 in .45LC and have a Marlin for a spare.
They both have had everything done to them that is SASS legal to make them work slick.
I had used the Marlin for 4 years with no mechanical failures. (a few operator failures, haha). Light and solid, a very good carbine. The main flaw that I can see is availability and quality of the newer Marlins. All of the post Remington Marlins that I have used are poorly machined and are not worth the cost.
If you can find a older Marlin, and they are few and far between, you will, with some parts and some work, have a great carbine.

My Uberti 73 is super accurate and will cloverleaf a 10 shot group at 50 m.
(yes I have the target). Large and heavy compared to the Marlin with a very different feel using the toggle link action. A very stable platform for a fast string of shots. Mine is set up for competition and has had every SASS legal modification done to it to make it fast and reliable.
Most of the problems that arise with these carbines are corrected by using the aftermarket upgraded parts available.They are a production carbine and available in Canada, there are suppliers and gunsmiths that have the parts and knowledge to slick them up for competition.
The main downside is cost. My 73 carbine came in at about $1500, add $500. in competition parts and another $250/$500 in gunsmithing. Verses not being able to buy a reliable new Marlin for $800. and $150 in comp. parts.

Apples and oranges, Both are great competition carbines, the pros and cons come down to availability vs. cost. I would purchase either one of these again. I have a 66 in .45lc for bpc. and havent used a 92 enough to have an opinion.

Just my opinions,

Quickspin, are you and L.C. Lexi gonna make it to the SAWWS AGM in Saskatoon? This one should be a real dust-up with a lot of policy ,range and exec. changes.

Best Regards and Good Shooting
Dapper Doc Thompson,
SASS 72011/SAWWS 001/ SAWWS C.R.O. www.sawws.com
The Saskatchewan Association of Wild West Shooters

 

[Cagunman]

Oh no, Frenchy is coming to the SASS Central Canadian Championships? Coming up with Doc Rowland?



I have heard this as well. You can't go wrong with an Uberti 73. The short stroke kit on them makes them work like a dream. Started with the Puma 92, night and day different.

OH Yeah!
I'll in Barrie Tuco! I'm coming with a posse of eastern cowboys, Imagine that! Don't know about Doc but seeing as he's actually from your neck of the wood I would put it past him.
I fully expect to share a brew or two with you!
See y'all there pard!

 

[bslim]

Cas Rifles
I shoot a Uberti 73 in 45 LC with a Marlin 94 Competition as my spare. My 73 was a project of time and patience. A 4th gen. short stroke kit from " The Cowboy and Indian Store, lifter/lever springs from " The Smith Shop". I had my brass carrier machined out to lighten up it's weight, but you can also get an aluminium one from the Cowboy and Indian Store. The remainder of the time was spent on internal fit & finish (polishing) and some on the trigger group. Comparing the 73 to the Marlin 94, the Marlin is ligther in weight and this may be a factor for some shooters. Both, my 73 and my Marlin are very accurate rifles, hand loading gives you the option of finding the best load for each. That being said, I will take my Marlin for accuracy side matches over the 73. I've shot a Marlin for over 8 years and there's a comfort factor built into it! Cost, in most cases, is an issue when you first start out, but take the time to see what's out there and study the pros & cons of all of your equipment. I'm sort of off the topic,so:
I run 130 grn. rnfp 38 spl. ammunition in my wifes' 73 and in her Marlin 94 C and both rifles feed very well. I do not own a Remy/Marlin, but I have seen and heard the horror stories.

B. Slim
SASS 17997
SASS RO11 Instructor
Alberta Frontier Shootists

 

[leecass]

I shoot Chaparral 66 in 38spl. I'm new to CAS (this year will be my second season) and the reason I went with the Chaparral was the restriction in my budget. As Frenchy metioned above the price difference is a lot. I ordered the 38spl carrier and the only problem I had was that Marstar sent me the wrong carrier... once that was resolved things worked much better. I reload myself and keep the rounds on the longer side and have had no issue with jamming. I plan to add a short stroke kit and change out some of the springs to get it going a little faster. But so far I've been happy with it and you really can't beat the price.

The Currahee Kid