LE No.4 Mk1 Crack in Forestock

killer_chicken

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I couldn't decide between this section and the gunsmithing section, if it's wrong, sorry, feel free to move it.

When inspecting the bedding of my No.4 Mk1, I found the following cracks at the rear end, where it makes contact with the receiver:

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How much will these cracks affect my accuracy? Is this something I'd be able to fix on my own? I have experience working with tools, but usually on metal, not wood.

On a side note, as you can see from the photos, the 'hidden' portions of wood are covered with ... something, is it supposed to be cleaned off?
 
I really can't comment on whether the cracks will affect the accuracy or not. But I do have experience working with hardwoods, both in antique repair and in furniture and cabinet building.

Let's hope that the wood inside the cracks is dry and not contaminated with oil or anything else that will prevent adhesion of glue. If the wood is relatively clean, one could force wood glue into the cracks and then clamp the wood until the glue dries. With very careful prying, using small screwdrivers, chisels, or knife blades, one can open up the cracks a bit more without causing more damage. It then should be possible to better force glue into the cracks. Clamping the wood also will help force the glue into remote crevasses. Use small blocks of wood, cut from 1/4" plywood or something like that, to pad the wood and protect it from damage from the clamps.

Using a glue such as Weldbond (or even good old Bondfast) should work.
 
You should remove any grease/oil/dirt with acetone or laquer thinner and allow to dry before attempting to glue it. Rather than using carpenters glue and possibly a wooden biscuit to fill the crack, an alternative is to fill the crack with epoxy.

I note what appears to be a circular impression on the face of the metal cross band. If so, this could have been made by the end of the buttstock bolt as it was tightened (this may well have caused the crack in the first place). The buttstock bolt should be installed with both the lock washer and circular washer in place so as to ensure that the end of the bolt is below flush with the inside face of the butt socket.
 
You should remove any grease/oil/dirt with acetone or laquer thinner and allow to dry before attempting to glue it. Rather than using carpenters glue and possibly a wooden biscuit to fill the crack, an alternative is to fill the crack with epoxy.

Really, really clean wood (no oil, grease, grime etc), then epoxy is my choice too. (I use West Epoxy System).

I note what appears to be a circular impression on the face of the metal cross band. If so, this could have been made by the end of the buttstock bolt as it was tightened (this may well have caused the crack in the first place).

Yup! Classic Lee Enfield mishap!

Lou
 
This is why they put the cross pin and later the cross strap on forends.

That must be what some folks call a "curry rifle" to be that filthy. If the rifle is as filthy as the forend you should run them both under hot water and then apply the Easy Off oven cleaner generously and let it sit for 15 minutes. Then flush with hot water and keep flushing. You'll be amazed at the difference. Boiled linseed oil for the wood after it dries completely of course. Wear gloves and eye protection and do it outside or in the garage. Cleans out your bronchial passages well too if you get a good whiff of it!:D
 
Thanks for the tips everyone. I checked the butt stock bolt, it's tight and I can still see threads, I'd say at least a 1/4". The stock isn't original, the PO had brought back a shortened, sporterized rifle with this modified stock, so it may have happened before.

I'm not sure what the dirty looking stuff is... it is hard, it almost seems like a clear coat that has gobs in places. The rest of the rifle is clean, as is the outside of the stock. I had figured it was normal for old milsurps. Shame on me I guess, I'll get it cleaned up.
 
Read carefully what PURPLE said regarding the protrusion of the Stock Bolt.

This is the CAUSE of your crack.

There should be a steel WASHER and a heavy 2-coil SPRING inside the butt when you remove the Stock Bolt. If they are not here, you MUST install a set. If the Bolt still protrudes too far, you can install a second WASHER, although usually this is not necessary; they did hold tolerances pretty well in making these. The parts are available. I have some around here, so do a lot of other guys.

Clean up all that guck (likely dried Linseed Oil) then degrease the wood completely in the area in which you are doing your repairing. Spread the Damned Crack (for that is what it is called) and work in enough Epoxy to fill the Crack, then allow the wood to go back together. Now CLAMP the stock and REMOVE any excess Epoxy and let it stand for 24 or 48 hours. Put the rifle back together and head for the range.

The Damned Crack (which you have just repaired) is responsible for more wild shooting in Lee-Enfield rifles than half of the "bum" barrels still in existence.

Most important of all: be sure to have fun! That's what it's all about!
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Read carefully what PURPLE said regarding the protrusion of the Stock Bolt.

This is the CAUSE of your crack.

There should be a steel WASHER and a heavy 2-coil SPRING inside the butt when you remove the Stock Bolt. If they are not here, you MUST install a set. If the Bolt still protrudes too far, you can install a second WASHER, although usually this is not necessary; they did hold tolerances pretty well in making these. The parts are available. I have some around here, so do a lot of other guys.

Clean up all that guck (likely dried Linseed Oil) then degrease the wood completely in the area in which you are doing your repairing. Spread the Damned Crack (for that is what it is called) and work in enough Epoxy to fill the Crack, then allow the wood to go back together. Now CLAMP the stock and REMOVE any excess Epoxy and let it stand for 24 or 48 hours. Put the rifle back together and head for the range.

The Damned Crack (which you have just repaired) is responsible for more wild shooting in Lee-Enfield rifles than half of the "bum" barrels still in existence.

Most important of all: be sure to have fun! That's what it's all about!
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Thanks for your reply, very helpful.

I may not have been clear in my last post (done on my phone), but I did check the buttstock bolt ... sort of. On the forestock side, I can see the end of the bolt about 1/4" in, so I don't think that's an issue any more. Whoever did it must have figured it out.

I think you're right about the guck, it definitely could be dried linseed oil. What's funny is it seems some is bridging part of the crack, suggesting that someone refinished the stock with linseed oil without repairing it!?
 
Although not directly related, I thought I'd post this link for you as it might provide some tangential help … :)

Repairing a Split Stock on a Lithgow SMLEhttp://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=324-Repairing-a-Split-Stock-on-a-Lithgow-SMLE

Regards,
Doug

Thanks for the link, good info there too. I wasn't planning on putting a screw in like they did, because this one already has the metal strap, but what do you guys think? I could put one in just below the strap, through the piece with the large crack.
 
I would avoid the "Dreaded Ishy Screw" or anything like it if I possibly could.

The method you already have will work just fine.

Remember one point: the way the Army did things 50 or 80 years ago was because they were working with the available technology of 50 or 80 years ago. Once those repairs had been designed and proven, they were made the standard. They remained the standard because the LE rifle went out of service as a front-line weapon before the development of the modern epoxies.

Nice thing about the epoxy fix is that, if you do it carefully, you can effect a repair which is absolutely solid, will NOT re-break.... and is very nearly invisible without the closest possible inspection. Do it right and even a very close inspection INSIDE the woodwork will show only a very thin line where the break once was...... and that now will be the STRONGEST part of the wood rather than the weakest. It is also much easier to do.

There are a FEW advantages to current technology....... although you never heard that from me. (I'm supposed to be an old stick-in-the-mud "do it the way we did it back in 1846"-type nut!)

Good luck!
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BTW, if you really want to learn a LOT about your rifle, check out Doug's website, just across the way. It's called milsurps dot com and the link he gave you is a hyperlink to one part of the site. Take out a (free) membership and start pillaging their wonderful Library. First book to get is a copy of "The Lee-Enfield Rifle" by Major E.G.B. Reynolds. This book came out in 1960 and Reynolds actually had access to mountains of Lee-Enfield documentation which later was shredded. The book also is an excellent overview of developments from 1879 through to 1960. Next book you want is "Shoot to Live! (The Johnson Method of Musketry Coaching)", which is a 1944 Canadian marksmanship course based on the Number 4 Rifle. There are very few better books written on shooting rifles, NONE better on using the Number 4 with iron sights. There are also text books on ammunition, complete Armourers' instructions for your rifle and Peter Laidler, the retired Master Armourer of the British Army, has posted about 40 articles, all based on his 50 years of experience. They also have a dedicated Lee-Enfield forum with some Really Top People (including Capt. Laidler) who will answer questions serious or silly. I know this to be true: I have asked some of the silly questions! See you there!
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That crap on the wood looks to me like cosmoline. You need heat to get it off.

Last time I de-cosmoed a rifle, I used my paint stripping heat gun and held it back a ways, certainly enough that things weren't getting too hot. But at a certain temp, the cosmo will flow right off and can be wiped the rest of the way off.
 
I repair and restore older (much older) enfield stocks with just that same damage. Here's my tuppence worth.

That guck looks like old varnish or shellac to me. Is it hard and crusty, will it chip and scrape with a knife?

Stay away from oven cleaner on wood, it is nasty stuff and can do damage (this is the voice of experience here. Bindar, dundat!). It also has a tendency to bleach and change the colour. Saying that, I have used it and it works very well, but only used it as a drastic measure on a oily old stock that looked as if it had been used as a baseball bat then as a dipstick for a septic tank. Cleaned it right up but took it down to 'new' looking wood (my stock turned colour with a slight green tinge, I had to dye it back to brown). The concern is the lye in it can be residual below the surface and would continue to eat at the wood in years to come. But hey, if it is a beater of a sportered stock, have at her. It is all a learning experience, and we can only learn from our own mistakes, unfortunately.

My prefered method to get that shiiit off would be with paint stripper. Don't go for the heavy duty industrial strength superduper econo stuff. Pick one of the pricey ones that is good for antique furniture, it wont harm the wood and will leave the 'age character' or patina unharmed. If it is gentle on wood, it will be a selling feature and will be emblasoned on the can.

Oh ya, buy rubber kitchen gloves, a couple of cheap stiff brushes and some dish sponges with the rough scrubby on one side. A paint drip tray would be handy to have too. Follow the instructions on the can to the letter, don't let it get on your skin or in your eyes. It can tickle a bit and tastes like crap.

When done wash the stock quickly with hot dish soapy water in a bucket and then paper towel dry it real quick. Don't let it soak up too much water, things will swell, distort, open up cracks, all kinds of wet problems. Hang it up somewhere warm, just leave it alone overnight to dry gently.

The crack I too believe was caused by somebody cranking the stock bolt in too far for whatever reason, although it looks pretty stable now and hasn't moved around much. The wood is susceptible to cracking right there, that metal tie plate was designed and installed for that very reason.

Clean the crack out with acetone or laquer paint thinners, slop lots in there (a syringe with needle works great for this). Epoxy works great if you can get it right in there, or, super glue in this case will wick down inside the crack due to its 'water like' consistancey. Cyanoacrylate is the magic ingrediant, it isn't too fussy about oil or grease either, just as long as it is fairly clean, it will work. Set up your vise, clamps or whatever, do a test clamp and get it ready. With cyanoacrylate, you have only ten seconds to get it set up and clamped, then she is stuck!
I have found that it holds fast, and if the wood breaks again, it will break right beside the glue seam, not on it, proving that the glue is stronger than the wood.

Let sit for 24 hours before shooting.
 
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