Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
March Purchases
- Thread starter stencollector
- Start date
Model 1887 Nagant 7.5mm. This revolver was part of the original Swedish Army's order of 2600 revolvers that was produced by Nagant brothers(not by later Husqvarna's factory) in 1888. It has the Swedish inspection officer's initials CL -Christofer Lemchen one of two officers assigned to inspect and accept these for the army. Based on the rack markings looks like it at some point ended it's martial duty and was reissued to Swedish paramilitary Landstrum unit probably pre WWI but certainly could have served well past WWII.
Its a Nagoya Series 6, made in late 1943. The mum is ground of and there is no dust cover or monopod, but the anti-aircraft sights are intact.
The bolt does not match the gun, but it shoots well. I have seen so few of these for sale in Canada that I decided I shouldn't be too picky.
If it's 9mm Browning Long, 9x21 brass works well.
Those Astra 400s are nice handling pistols. Usually very accurate as well.
Back in the mid seventies, I was visiting a friend on an Austrian military base. They had a couple of hundred of them, that hadn't seen any use since WWII.
They all looked brand new and were all in 9x19 chambering.
Supposedly, they are plenty strong enough to handle the hot submachine gun loadings the Axis used to issue and as such were preferred side arms for those that carried pistols into combat by many of the Axis participants.
The fit and finish on them is phenomenal.
If my memory serves, Germany and Austria both ordered several thousand of them from Spain during WWII. The facilities in Spain, were not capable of producing and delivering such large quantities quickly.
The pistols I saw, just outside of Vienna, were part of an order that was made during WWII but not delivered until after the war was over. They had been paid for and under international agreement, had to be delivered.
I've always wondered what happened to all of those lovely pistols
They are definitely top quality and relatively underappreciated.
Very few people realize how much action Astra pistols saw during WWII.
I wonder how many the Russians have hidden away????
Those Astra 400s are nice handling pistols. Usually very accurate as well.
Back in the mid seventies, I was visiting a friend on an Austrian military base. They had a couple of hundred of them, that hadn't seen any use since WWII.
They all looked brand new and were all in 9x19 chambering.
Supposedly, they are plenty strong enough to handle the hot submachine gun loadings the Axis used to issue and as such were preferred side arms for those that carried pistols into combat by many of the Axis participants.
The fit and finish on them is phenomenal.
If my memory serves, Germany and Austria both ordered several thousand of them from Spain during WWII. The facilities in Spain, were not capable of producing and delivering such large quantities quickly.
The pistols I saw, just outside of Vienna, were part of an order that was made during WWII but not delivered until after the war was over. They had been paid for and under international agreement, had to be delivered.
I've always wondered what happened to all of those lovely pistols
They are definitely top quality and relatively underappreciated.
Very few people realize how much action Astra pistols saw during WWII.
I wonder how many the Russians have hidden away????
I gots one of these here Spanish items...
Now-if anyone can explain 9mm long/glisenti/steyr/x23/bergman/38 auto etc. etc.
Nice Astra! From the serial number and proof marks it's a Franco-era Spanish Army gun. It's chambered in 9 x 23mm Bergmann AKA 9mm Largo. Alot of them had the extractor openned up to shoot semi-rimmed .38 ACP (NOT .38 Super and not .380). If so it should be marked 9mm / 38.
All the stuff you read about a "tolerant chamber" and it shooting all sorts of ammo was just dreamed up by Interarms when they imported them in the 60s to make them more desirable. Because they have a very strong extractor that will tend to hold the round in place and a quite long firing pin, they'll often fire other calibers, but were not intended to. Sooner or later (probably sooner) your extractor will break, and you'll be scoring up your chamber walls forward of the shorter mouth.
Now, some actually fairly knowledgeable people have suggested to me that 9 x 23mm Steyr MAY work alright in a 9mm Largom although not the reverse. Personally, I have 4 9mm Largos and a whole bunch of 9mm Steyr ammo, but I'm not going to chance it. And if I was it'd feel safer doing it in a locked-breech Star.
The Germans did buy some small quantities of Astra 400s, but they actually mostly bought the Astra 600/43 and Star Model B in 9mm Luger, most of which were not actually delivered once the allies liberated France. Of the other Axis powers, Bulgaria was a major user of the Star Model B as well.
Thanks to Nyles and Bearhunter!!
That is correct...
Im having trouble grasping the concept of so many similiar cartridges...
I have a box of 'Sinoxid Geco' 9mm somethings...
the cases are marked '9m/mSt'
the case measures 22.9mm......it chambers in the Astra.......is this the correct ammo??
references list : 9mm bergman---9mm steyr---9mm browning long---9mm glisenti---9mm para---380acp
That is correct...
Im having trouble grasping the concept of so many similiar cartridges...
I have a box of 'Sinoxid Geco' 9mm somethings...
the cases are marked '9m/mSt'
the case measures 22.9mm......it chambers in the Astra.......is this the correct ammo??
references list : 9mm bergman---9mm steyr---9mm browning long---9mm glisenti---9mm para---380acp
9 x23mm Bergmann AKA 9mm Largo - used in Bergmann Bayard, Astra 400, Star Model 1920/1921/1922/A/A Super, various Llamas and the Jo.Lo.Ar. High pressure rimless load similar to .38 ACP, some guns were modified to shoot both.
9 x 23mm Steyr - Used in the Steyr 1911 / 1912 pistol. Rimless, medium pressure, similar to 9mm Luger in power.
.38 ACP - Use in the Colt 1900 / 1902 / 1903 Pocket Hammer series and the Webley 1910 auto. Later loaded to much higher pressures and called the .38 Super. Guns chambered or modified for .38 ACP will chamber .38 Super but are NOT meant to take that much pressure so don't do it.
.380 ACP aka 9 x 17mm Short - Familar low pressure round used in countless pocket pistols. Not the same as .38 ACP.
9 x 20mm Browning Log - Used in the Browning 1903 / Husqvarna 1907. Low pressure round, about equivalent to .380 ACP in power. Not interchangeable with anything else.
9 x 19mm Glisenti - used in the Glisenti 1910 and Beretta 1915, 1915/19 and 1923 pistols. Dimensionally identical to 9mm Luger, but loaded to much lower pressure for use in weak or unlocked breech guns. Firing a 9mm Luger round in there will destroy the gun.
9 x 23mm Steyr - Used in the Steyr 1911 / 1912 pistol. Rimless, medium pressure, similar to 9mm Luger in power.
.38 ACP - Use in the Colt 1900 / 1902 / 1903 Pocket Hammer series and the Webley 1910 auto. Later loaded to much higher pressures and called the .38 Super. Guns chambered or modified for .38 ACP will chamber .38 Super but are NOT meant to take that much pressure so don't do it.
.380 ACP aka 9 x 17mm Short - Familar low pressure round used in countless pocket pistols. Not the same as .38 ACP.
9 x 20mm Browning Log - Used in the Browning 1903 / Husqvarna 1907. Low pressure round, about equivalent to .380 ACP in power. Not interchangeable with anything else.
9 x 19mm Glisenti - used in the Glisenti 1910 and Beretta 1915, 1915/19 and 1923 pistols. Dimensionally identical to 9mm Luger, but loaded to much lower pressure for use in weak or unlocked breech guns. Firing a 9mm Luger round in there will destroy the gun.
so the 'st' mark on the case is for Steyr-not steel, like German ammo?
from your info it could be impossible to tell 9x23Largo from 9x23Steyr???
is the bottom line Im gonna hafta make my own to fire the Astra?
....and thanks for all the info so far!!
