Lately I have seen quite a few dealers selling Mosin Nagant M91/30 ex- sniper Rifles. Got me to thinking, what makes a "Sniper Rifle " different than a standard Mosin Nagant M91/30 rifle ? I always thought sniper rifles were quite uncommon. I have read that the Russians used a lot of sniper rifles, but they seem to be getting very common, other than their price. I'm wondering if someone is just drilling and tapping holes in the receiver of a regular rifle and re branding it for a profit. Any thoughts ???
Mosin Nagant M91/30 ex- sniper Rifles
- Thread starter got to go
- Start date
Ex-snipers were originally issued as Sniper rifles, but for one reason or another had the scope removed.
Snipers were picked out from rifles that shot better than average. Or some folks believe one factory (Izvesk or Tula...dont recall which)..made pre-planned production runs of Sniper rifles.
After the WW2 they decide they didn't need such a large amount of Mosin Nagant sniper rifles. Maybe because the design was going to be replaced...or not as many enemy Countries to use them against....Anyways, during the refurb process "ex-snipers" had their Scopes removed because:
1.~ the Bore had become too poor to qualify as a Sniper rifle
2.~ The cost of producing and maintaining Optics
I had one Ex-sniper 1943 with a very shot-out bore....prolly seen a thousand rounds of Surplus during the war. (not surplus then though)
Have a 1944 Ex-sniper with a good bore too, but still a long-shot from a new barrel.
Are they uncommon? ....They made approximately 275 000.0 Scoped Mosin Nagants
Mosins are a pain to do work on...so I doubt it would be for sales. I could be wrong...but seems like a lot of work. Measuring the holes, keeping them level; and then filling them in. Not likely i would think.
Snipers were picked out from rifles that shot better than average. Or some folks believe one factory (Izvesk or Tula...dont recall which)..made pre-planned production runs of Sniper rifles.
After the WW2 they decide they didn't need such a large amount of Mosin Nagant sniper rifles. Maybe because the design was going to be replaced...or not as many enemy Countries to use them against....Anyways, during the refurb process "ex-snipers" had their Scopes removed because:
1.~ the Bore had become too poor to qualify as a Sniper rifle
2.~ The cost of producing and maintaining Optics
I had one Ex-sniper 1943 with a very shot-out bore....prolly seen a thousand rounds of Surplus during the war. (not surplus then though)
Have a 1944 Ex-sniper with a good bore too, but still a long-shot from a new barrel.
Are they uncommon? ....They made approximately 275 000.0 Scoped Mosin Nagants
Mosins are a pain to do work on...so I doubt it would be for sales. I could be wrong...but seems like a lot of work. Measuring the holes, keeping them level; and then filling them in. Not likely i would think.
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Ex sniper ere quite uncommon.
Two things you should know about ex sniper:
They have two serial numbers one for rifle one for optics. Although I ve seen some that did not have optic serial on the side. But holes were plugged.
Barrels defiantly seen action and in most cases deemed unfit for further service as a sniper rifle.
There ex sniper for a reason.
Also it is harder to import ex sniper because the have "historical value" therefor they are not allowed to be exported. Only small quantity slip through.
Also you should know that original scopes were made with cork shims and after 30-40 years they were not useful for army therefor most sniper rifles were change to original state in the 70's and 80's. SVD came to service and Mosin held no value to army. Except for some small amount that made to Afghanistan because they were better at high elevation then SVD believe it or not.
Also for your point on someone tapping and drilling for a profit. I do not think so it just not cost efficient. About $60 for standard gunsmith and you are looking at 2 hours. So it would add up to $120. If it was selling at $400 then I would think someone would do it. I heard of cases when people put Finish marking on rifles but not lately. Also it was in USA not in Canada.
Two things you should know about ex sniper:
They have two serial numbers one for rifle one for optics. Although I ve seen some that did not have optic serial on the side. But holes were plugged.
Barrels defiantly seen action and in most cases deemed unfit for further service as a sniper rifle.
There ex sniper for a reason.
Also it is harder to import ex sniper because the have "historical value" therefor they are not allowed to be exported. Only small quantity slip through.
Also you should know that original scopes were made with cork shims and after 30-40 years they were not useful for army therefor most sniper rifles were change to original state in the 70's and 80's. SVD came to service and Mosin held no value to army. Except for some small amount that made to Afghanistan because they were better at high elevation then SVD believe it or not.
Also for your point on someone tapping and drilling for a profit. I do not think so it just not cost efficient. About $60 for standard gunsmith and you are looking at 2 hours. So it would add up to $120. If it was selling at $400 then I would think someone would do it. I heard of cases when people put Finish marking on rifles but not lately. Also it was in USA not in Canada.
Ex-snipers do not have bent bolts, those were removed when they were modified back to regular Infantry rifles. Standard Issue Infantry rifles do not have bent bolts. Commercial civilian made bent bolts are available in the marketplace.
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Jack
- Bent bolts are done at the Ukrainian arsenal , same place they make the repro 91/30 and SVT-40 snipers. They have been doing it for years now so cost is small to them. Gary Cole in the USA is the one who got them started making the repro items, he was supposed the have exclusive importing rights at the time. Unfortunately for him, that deal did not last long.
- They are also a few Gunsmiths in the USA doing it on a professional basis also.
- They are also a few Gunsmiths in the USA doing it on a professional basis also.
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It really depends on the condition dude.
Like others have said, if its really shot out, it might be worse than a run of the mill mosin thats hardly been used.
Mine on the other hand made in 1944, is in good condition and shoots well. Shoots better than my enfield (barrel has seen better days), but my swede takes the cake.
For what it is worth I have an ex sniper with a worn bore and I consider it to be quite accurate. With handloads that it likes it will put them into less than 1 1/2" regularly. I consider that quite good for open sites at 100yds. The rifle may do even better, I may be the limiting factor. My research has shown that the Soviets selected sniper rifles by how they shot when test fired.
Many ex-snipers also have had their stocks replaced, since the infantry stock is different than the sniper stock.
Some ex-snipers were actually never even snipers at all; the barrels were approved to be used as snipers, but due to sniper quotas being met, they were initially put into service as infantry rifles, and paired with a receiver that never had a scope mount attached.
The important thing to me is that the ex-sniper barrel bears the sniper stamps, which indicated that it tested accurate, and that it's still in good condition. Whether it was used as a sniper or regular infantry rifle is only important from a collectibles perspective, IMO. To me, what more important is that it shoots straight.
dgradinaru
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Some of the Ex snipers were removed from the Sniper progaram beacuse they did not get good accuracy. They were choosen for sniper testing but didnt pass as a accurate rifle.
I think what you may mean is that some sniper rifles later degraded to the point where they could no longer be snipers. That part is true. I would think that would always be a factor in any country's sniper program. That's why its also important to make sure the 'ex-sniper' barrel is also in good condition. Its not good enough to just have the sniper stamps.
But lots of snipers were also turned into infantry rifles simply because the Soviets made drastic cuts in their sniper numbers. In WWII they fielded way more snipers than any other country.
When any of the barrels were manufactured they were tested for accuracy. If they were never sniper rifles, then they very likely fell into the 'less accurate' group. If they were at one point stamped for use as sniper barrels, then they fell into the 'more accurate' group. As long as the barrels haven't been shot out or damaged, the ex-snipers should still be more accuarate than the typical non-sniper barrel (from comparable years).
Its just my personal thinking on the matter, but I suspect that sniper may have generally taken better care of their rifle as well. If you're sniping targets from hundreds of yards, then you aren't likely using your weapon as a club nearly as often as the guys closer to the action. If that's true, then having a straight sniper barrel may be better than an ex-sniper, just because the ex-sniper may have seen action as an infantry rifle for at least a period of time.
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