7.62 vs 556 vs 6.8 - DI vs Piston

MrSchultz

MrSchultz

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Ok guys, so I'm sure most of you probably thought this was another thread over which caliber rifle round is better - NOPE! it isn't !

I have had lots of handguns in my time but only had 1 AR, and never really used it.. so I sold it, keeping only my handguns.

I'm looking at buying another carbine that I really want to learn and use efficiently. I only plan to buy one rifle and learn it inside out.

I have very limited knowledge of carbines so I could use all tips any of you provide.

So here is what I'm looking for in order of first priority to last:

1)Reliability
2)Parts availability
3)Customization/Accessories - would love the ability to customize the carbine with aftermarket parts
4)Price of ammo/availability of ammo/availability of reloading components for either calibre
5)Left handed - which carbines are available for lefties?

Any left handed shooters here that run a right handed carbine? if so, can you run it well even though it's not your strong hand?

I appreciate any advice! thanks guys
 
1)Reliability
I still have my first CZ858 (Over 1.5 years)... Ive shot corrosive ammo (more than 30K rounds) and never once cleaned it!!!! NOT ONCE.... It works EVERYTIME

2)Parts availability
I have another CZ858 that I take care of

3)Customization/Accessories - would love the ability to customize the carbine with aftermarket parts
You gotta be kidding

4)Price of ammo/availability of ammo/availability of reloading components for either calibre
Corrosive ammo is $215 including taxes for 1200 rounds
Non corrosive is $350 including tax for 1400 rounds

5)Left handed - which carbines are available for lefties?
You are gonna have to manage or work something out
 
1)Reliability - ARs are fairly reliable, especially if you go with a good manufacturer... not to say that an AR made by Norinco isn't reliable, however DD, Larue, LMT, Noveske, etc are known for their reliability in the field...

2)Parts availability - If you don't mind 100% on going with some form of "Frankengun" parts are readily available for ARs, especially when you can order a ton of small parts from Brownells, mind you, the dealers here are really good for providing parts too!

3)Customization/Accessories - seriously? ARs are really Barbie dolls for guys, you can dress it up any way you like, and like I said before, you can order some stuff from Brownells, and many of the dealers here offer lots of accessories... however, if you're really looking to run your gun as efficiently as possible, get your stock gun... shoot it lots for a while, then get your accessories...

4)Price of ammo/availability of ammo/availability of reloading components for either calibre - Well, if you've already got a reloading kit, then reloading's gonna be the cheapest for you, other than that... 223 is relatively ok in terms of availability (in bulk) and price... it isn't as nice as the 7.62x39 surplus stuff... but it isn't as bad as 308 or 6.8

5)Left handed - I think Stags from ArmsEast have the lefty ARs, but in all honesty i wouldn't really bother much, I'm left handed and left eye dominant, but i shoot right, it took a little bit of training, but i'm getting better.... still have to concentrate a little bit harder when looking through the small aperture at 200yrds, but it's not bad. However, you can also shoot a right handed AR on your left side, there's a brass deflector so spent casings don't hit you in the face

Now all this mainly applies to the AR15, not sure if you're looking for something else, the PE90s are really nice, and you can get a nice short barreled version, but the accessories for it are a lot more expensive, however it's not restricted, so huge bonus right there... 308 ARs tend to be more expensive, and components are harder to come by. I found this out when I was thinking of doing a 308 build, but I couldn't seem to find an Upper receiver, or barrel... and the 6.8 well in an AR it's harder to come by those... unless you start going the XCR route
 
MrSchultz said:
...

So here is what I'm looking for in order of first priority to last:

1)Reliability
2)Parts availability
3)Customization/Accessories - would love the ability to customize the carbine with aftermarket parts
4)Price of ammo/availability of ammo/availability of reloading components for either calibre
5)Left handed - which carbines are available for lefties?

...
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In a perfect world with no limit on the bank balance, but only one space in the locker for a 5.56 rifle, I would get a Swiss SIG 550 series gun. Everything on it works, has been thought over and made perfect. When the Swiss make rifles, they make good ones. The biggest drawback is, it is not an AR so the huge market for accessories and parts isn't there.
 
I've had the opportunity to shoot quite a few makes and models of modern military rifles since getting my PAL and the only rifles still in my gun cabinet are two service grade Colt AR15s (16" and 20" barrels) and a M14 (it's really only there for hunting).

There's something to be said about the simplicity of the AR15 that makes it a winner. It's easy to strip, it's easy to clean, ammo's (relatively) cheap to buy and make, and it's a rifle with enough inhernent precission that it's typically the operator and not the gun that causes groups to open up. Also, anyone saying the direct impingement AR15 isn't a reliable firearm hasn't put enough rounds down range, or is stuck in the 1950s/1960s. I have yet to have a FTF or FTE that wasn't magazine related.
 
cancer said:
I've had the opportunity to shoot quite a few makes and models of modern military rifles since getting my PAL and the only rifles still in my gun cabinet are two service grade Colt AR15s (16" and 20" barrels) and a M14 (it's really only there for hunting).

There's something to be said about the simplicity of the AR15 that makes it a winner. It's easy to strip, it's easy to clean, ammo's (relatively) cheap to buy and make, and it's a rifle with enough inhernent precission that it's typically the operator and not the gun that causes groups to open up. Also, anyone saying the direct impingement AR15 isn't a reliable firearm hasn't put enough rounds down range, or is stuck in the 1950s/1960s. I have yet to have a FTF or FTE that wasn't magazine related.
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Quoted as truth. The DI sucks crowd is pretty clueless. Having poured literally hundreds of thousands of rounds through the AR platform I can say that the DI system has NEVER caused me any malfunctions attributed directly to the gas system or design. Mags, yes. Dirt and debris, yes but not the gas system.

I find in general (not all) the piston crowd do is read a spec sheet online and instead of real world experience outside a sanitized range they have never really ran an AR. And I mean REALLY RUN an AR.

I'm a HUGE H&K fan but not because of their piston system. That's why I bought a KAC, DI baby.

But that is only my 2 cents.

EDIT: I also run a SAN so I guess I am a bit of a hypocrite now that I think about it since it is piston driven. And it is AWESOME. ha ha
 
I must add that before you buy anything, for the love of god, at the very least make sure to see/handle the type of rifle you are getting in person. This way you can get a feel for the weight, size, if it's your cup of tea as far as ergos go, etc. Ideally you should shoot the type too, either a friend's gun, etc.
As for the Swiss Arms, they are great rifles, I had one. Ran perfectly, marvel of engineering, brilliantly put together, built like a tank, best BUIS I've ever seen, accurate. Just be aware that it is a bit heavier (and more expensive!) than a similarly set up AR, the studs on the sides of the mags can snag and get really annoying, and that the ergos are not as convenient as the AR. Ended up selling it, going back to an AR.
 
Benito said:
I must add that before you buy anything, for the love of god, at the very least make sure to see/handle the type of rifle you are getting in person. This way you can get a feel for the weight, size, if it's your cup of tea as far as ergos go, etc. Ideally you should shoot the type too, either a friend's gun, etc.
As for the Swiss Arms, they are great rifles, I had one. Ran perfectly, marvel of engineering, brilliantly put together, built like a tank, best BUIS I've ever seen, accurate. Just be aware that it is a bit heavier (and more expensive!) than a similarly set up AR, the studs on the sides of the mags can snag and get really annoying, and that the ergos are not as convenient as the AR. Ended up selling it, going back to an AR.
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Clip two mags together and shave off the exposed studs. That way you can still clip/unclip them but they are dedicated to right/left when clipped together. They will then slide in and out of a triple AR pouch easily without snagging.
 
I should also point out that in my post above I'm not saying that rifles other than the AR15 suck and should be avoided. I'm only saying that the AR15 is an excellent fit for my requirements, and based on your list, I believe yours as well.

That said, it's a real kick in the pants that they're restricted. Would be a true pleasure to be able to shoot an AR on the farm.
 
guys, thank you all so much for replying :)

the first two gentlemen didn't really like the "accessorizing/customizing" part of my list lol. I understand the old school guys don't like to mess with their firearms, well I do. Anything to make it better, easier, more efficient I will spent the money to do that. Also, I'm not talking about lasers, sights, and lights, more like parts that can make it more "left handed friendly".

I really like FN products as they keep us lefties in mind and make a firearm to work for both hands. I like the FN2000 but Questar doesn't sell them anymore, and if I bought one on EE, would I be able to get replacement parts in case something broke? that's what I'm worried about.
 
MrSchultz said:
guys, thank you all so much for replying :)

the first two gentlemen didn't really like the "accessorizing/customizing" part of my list lol. I understand the old school guys don't like to mess with their firearms, well I do. Anything to make it better, easier, more efficient I will spent the money to do that. Also, I'm not talking about lasers, sights, and lights, more like parts that can make it more "left handed friendly".

I really like FN products as they keep us lefties in mind and make a firearm to work for both hands. I like the FN2000 but Questar doesn't sell them anymore, and if I bought one on EE, would I be able to get replacement parts in case something broke? that's what I'm worried about.
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As previously indicated, you can get a lefty Stag Arms AR15 from Arms East (see banner above). If you can't get FS2000 parts from Questar, you could check with R. Nicholls. AFAIK they're still the official FN importer for Canada. Don't know how helpful they'll be, I've heard and seen very conflicting statements about their civilian customer service. Also, you should note that the IWI Tavor can be switched from righty to lefty. There's a more sizable parts and resources related community for the Tavor than the FS2000.

What're you planning on using the rifle for? Plinking at the range? Matches? Hunting?
 
cancer said:
As previously indicated, you can get a lefty Stag Arms AR15 from Arms East (see banner above). If you can't get FS2000 parts from Questar, you could check with R. Nicholls. AFAIK they're still the official FN importer for Canada. Don't know how helpful they'll be, I've heard and seen very conflicting statements about their civilian customer service. Also, you should note that the IWI Tavor can be switched from righty to lefty. There's a more sizable parts and resources related community for the Tavor than the FS2000.

What're you planning on using the rifle for? Plinking at the range? Matches? Hunting?
Click to expand...

I checked out arms east for their lefty AR's, they seem to be all out of them. Can anyone comment on Stag Arms for their quality? or are they all pretty much the same in terms of quality?
 
So my cz858 broke after about 1400 rounds of ammo and I have to send it back to Wolverine. I'm not pumping up the AR15, it's a great rifle, but it's restricted. My m305 is such a project gun it's like a harley davidson, it spends more time in the back of a pickup truck than a dog. I work on it 50x more than I get to shoot it, but when I take it out, it almost hits MOA

In the end I just bought a Ruger Scout. It's great for hunting and playing rambo, shouldn't break, and you can get in 223 or 308.
 
Rocket Surgery said:
So my cz858 broke after about 1400 rounds of ammo and I have to send it back to Wolverine. I'm not pumping up the AR15, it's a great rifle, but it's restricted. My m305 is such a project gun it's like a harley davidson, it spends more time in the back of a pickup truck than a dog. I work on it 50x more than I get to shoot it, but when I take it out, it almost hits MOA

In the end I just bought a Ruger Scout. It's great for hunting and playing rambo, shouldn't break, and you can get in 223 or 308.
Click to expand...



What broke in you 858?
I've abused the hell out of first one and it works great
I've notice little bits of rust in the barrel couple of days after shooting corrosive but i just take it to the range again and feed it more rounds....

Its a workhorse of a unit

My newer one I like but not as much as the first.... I think we've bonded:)
 
MrSchultz said:
I checked out arms east for their lefty AR's, they seem to be all out of them. Can anyone comment on Stag Arms for their quality? or are they all pretty much the same in terms of quality?
Click to expand...

Stag Arms makes good guns. You won't go wrong with Arms East's customer service either. Myabe you should give them a call and see when they're expecting more lefties.

Someone made a large post in this forum a couple weeks back comparing each of the AR15 manufacturers in terms of quality. Try searching up that thread.
 
1 Round to beet them 1 Round to rule them all...

300 BlackOut
Now the real kicker is if I could some how make a 223 version of the 858 with a 308 barrel use this round.
V:I:
 
MrSchultz said:
the first two gentlemen didn't really like the "accessorizing/customizing" part of my list lol.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify quickly, I'm really not opposed to accessorizing/customizing your AR... it's just kinda a silly question, given the number of companies that make parts for them.

That being said, there are 2 things you'll probably like for your AR (if you get one)... you can get a Troy or Norgon, Ambi-mag release, I purchased one from Brownells before I found out Fabsports carried them, and you'll probably want an Ambi safety selector, that'll probably be all you need to work the AR from the left side. You can get a Magpul BAD lever type device, so that you can work the bolt catch from the left too. The first 2 I would recommend.

Stag makes some pretty good ARs from what I hear, but I really don't think you'll have any issues going with a different brand and slapping some ambi controls on it.

I think the KAC SR15s are really good, but they're way over price, I would lean more towards the Daniel Defence DDM4, those things can take a beating and function fine!

DDM4 Torture test
 
justinchow said:
Just to clarify quickly, I'm really not opposed to accessorizing/customizing your AR... it's just kinda a silly question, given the number of companies that make parts for them.

That being said, there are 2 things you'll probably like for your AR (if you get one)... you can get a Troy or Norgon, Ambi-mag release, I purchased one from Brownells before I found out Fabsports carried them, and you'll probably want an Ambi safety selector, that'll probably be all you need to work the AR from the left side. You can get a Magpul BAD lever type device, so that you can work the bolt catch from the left too. The first 2 I would recommend.

Stag makes some pretty good ARs from what I hear, but I really don't think you'll have any issues going with a different brand and slapping some ambi controls on it.

I think the KAC SR15s are really good, but they're way over price, I would lean more towards the Daniel Defence DDM4, those things can take a beating and function fine!

DDM4 Torture test
Click to expand...

thanks for the advice! I'll definitely add those to my list. I'm curious though, and this may be a stupid question, but here it goes:

I'm really leaning towards the PWS mk107/mk114 piston operating system, would these accessories work on this carbine? thanks!
 
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