Thinking about a No.1 Mk.3 RFI...Need advice

C

CDB18

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I'm looking at a matching RFI No.1 Mk.3 as my introduction to the milsurp world and was hoping those with more experience could help me out with a couple questions. To me this rifle seems more dirty than anything else and could improve significantly with a thorough cleaning (metal & wood). Overall I am hoping to end up with a decent looking shooting rifle. I am not very concerned about how 'collectable' it is.

Enfield-full.jpg


Enfield-receiver-top.jpg


Enfield-left.jpg


1) Can the cross screw be removed and the hole filled? does the cross screw effect the removal of the stock?

2) More generally does this look like a rifle which a newby could - with some work - clean up in order to have a decent looking shooter?

3) I have been doing some research on the cleaning of the wood and metal of milsurp rifles and have come across several methods. Which would work best for this particular rifle?

Thanks in advance for any help,

CDB
 
I would not remove and patch the reinforcing screw & hole. The Indian rifles are legitimate variations, and this is a standard feature. It won't affect disassembly. Remove the forend before removing the butt. You will split the forend if you remove the butt first. The rifle looks filthy. I expect a thorough cleaning would work wonders, though. I would be inclined to wash & scrub the stock, to remove grime. Don't let it get soaked or stay wet.
 
That could be a great candidate for a good shooter. It does need some cleaning though. What kind of shape is the bore in and what is the headspace like? Get those checked and it should be good to go. It looks like it was in the roof or something for quite sometime. Needs a good rub down with 0000 steel wool and some oil. The wood could be cleaned up with some linseed oil and some elbow grease.
 
greyman441 said:
That could be a great candidate for a good shooter. It does need some cleaning though. What kind of shape is the bore in and what is the headspace like? Get those checked and it should be good to go. It looks like it was in the roof or something for quite sometime. Needs a good rub down with 0000 steel wool and some oil. The wood could be cleaned up with some linseed oil and some elbow grease.
Click to expand...

I'm told it's a 5-groove bore in 'very good' condition. That fact, the matching #'s and what seems like good condition metal (under the dirt) made me think this could be a good project.

CDB
 
Great advice from those previous posts. I say get her and clean her up, you will feel really good taking her to the range knowing the amount of love and care you put into her. What better way to enter the milsurp world :D ?
 
The "Dreaded Ishy Screw" was an Ishapore (India) factory and Armourers' fix for "The Damned Crack". There is a very thin part of the Forestock right by where the trigger mech goes down through the wood to connect to the Trigger Guard; this is where they break, ruining accuracy. It is the utter bane of long-range shooters and has completely wrecked more than one winning score. It is caused, generally, by the close-fitting wood drying out and splitting away from the metal action.

India is a land of immense climatic variations. Add to that that some of the local woods grew rather fast and were not as stable as Walnut. The Imperial Army had a lot of troubles with cracking stocks, all of which had to be repaired.

So the Factory at Ishapore took matters into their own hands and repaired hundreds of thousands of stocks BEFORE THEY SPLIT. They also repaired Handguards, Sight Guards and anything else that MIGHT get wrecked. I have a 1948 Ishapore rifle here, new and fired only 3 rounds. It has EIGHT factory repairs. The "Dreaded Ishy Screw" is a perfectly legitimate FACTORY modification of the basic pattern. They are equally-collectible with the unmodded rifles and generally are an indication of Indian Service, even in an English-made rifle (many of which served in India also).

Ishapores generally are made to a lower standard of FINISH, but they are made of excellent materials and undergo the same gauging and Proof processes as an English-made rifle, to the same standard: they are SAFE. I will not say that they are to a lower standard of FIT, although that has been said; my experience is that they are fitted on the tight side when new. Add a couple of drops of oil to the Bolt-way and they can cycle as fast as almost anything else. They might not look all that great, but they are SOLID and they can be very accurate as well.

Nuthin' wrong with an Ishapore Rifle.

Hope this helps.
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Further to the "Dreaded Ishy Screw".

Captain Peter Laidler is a retired British Army Master Armourer.... or would be if they would actually let him retire. He still works with the British military in the Weapons section at Warminster, but he is also a Gun Nut Par Excellence and is more than willing to share his hard-won knowledge with anyone who asks an interesting question. He is a regular contributor over at milsurps dot com and is highly esteemed for his help. He has written a heavily-illustrated article on removing the Ishapore Screw, taking the process in slow steps: easy to follow.

At the top of this Forum there is a long list of Stickies, many of which are Links. Click on the one by Badger Dog and you will find Links to take you directly to various parts of the Lee-Enfield section of the Military Knowledge Library. The article by Captain Laidler is one of these Links. You now have a Master Armourer coaching you precisely how to go about removing this Screw and filling the Stock afterwards.

It just don' git no better'n that!

Hope this helps.
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Warm water and dish detergent, followed by warm water and a good wipe-down would do wonders for that woodwork, just for a start. Get the crud off and dry it immediately, then let it stand overnight. Once it's clean, then you can treat it with linseed oil and watch it start to glow.

As to the metal, likely a solid spraying with brake-drum cleaner (Brake-Kleen or similar) followed by wiping her down with shop cloths will remove 99% of that crud. You can remove the rest with a bit of elbow-grease and shop towels, then wipe her down with a good-quality light oil, oil your parts individually and put her back together.

End result will be rather a decent-looking Ishapore rifle with All Numbers Matching.

Just a small bit of luck and she will shoot as good as she looks.

An EXCELLENT first-project rifle!

Welcome to the Club, friend!
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smellie said:
The "Dreaded Ishy Screw" was an Ishapore (India) factory and Armourers' fix for "The Damned Crack". There is a very thin part of the Forestock right by where the trigger mech goes down through the wood to connect to the Trigger Guard; this is where they break, ruining accuracy. It is the utter bane of long-range shooters and has completely wrecked more than one winning score. It is caused, generally, by the close-fitting wood drying out and splitting away from the metal action.

India is a land of immense climatic variations. Add to that that some of the local woods grew rather fast and were not as stable as Walnut. The Imperial Army had a lot of troubles with cracking stocks, all of which had to be repaired.

So the Factory at Ishapore took matters into their own hands and repaired hundreds of thousands of stocks BEFORE THEY SPLIT. They also repaired Handguards, Sight Guards and anything else that MIGHT get wrecked. I have a 1948 Ishapore rifle here, new and fired only 3 rounds. It has EIGHT factory repairs. The "Dreaded Ishy Screw" is a perfectly legitimate FACTORY modification of the basic pattern. They are equally-collectible with the unmodded rifles and generally are an indication of Indian Service, even in an English-made rifle (many of which served in India also).

Ishapores generally are made to a lower standard of FINISH, but they are made of excellent materials and undergo the same gauging and Proof processes as an English-made rifle, to the same standard: they are SAFE. I will not say that they are to a lower standard of FIT, although that has been said; my experience is that they are fitted on the tight side when new. Add a couple of drops of oil to the Bolt-way and they can cycle as fast as almost anything else. They might not look all that great, but they are SOLID and they can be very accurate as well.

Nuthin' wrong with an Ishapore Rifle.

Hope this helps.
.
Click to expand...

+1
Dont remove the screw, you will never hid the fact it was there & its better to have something thats meant to be there than something that should not.
 
I bought one of these right around Christmas in about the same shape as this one but I will warn you check the action for bolt slop, mine had an issue where the bolt was a tad loose fitting and was being forced up by the magazine follower/ any cartridges in the magazine due to an improperly fitted magazine which I fixed and now the issue is gone. As for cleaning it up for the metal I used hoppe's elite gun cleaner I find it cuts through grease and dirt great and for cleaning the stock I use this concoction of boiled linseed oil, vinegar, and turpentine and I find it works well.

(wood cleaner mix) ht tp://www.msue.msu.edu/objects/content_revision/download.cfm/revision_id.493993/workspace_id.-4/01500265.html/
 
Taking the magazine apart is a no tools stripping operation. The rear of the follower is pressed down; the front end is twisted a bit to clear the lips, then the follower/spring assembly is wiggled out.
The bolthead unscrews easily; stripping the firing pin out requires a special tool.
 
First of all thanks for all the advice.

I've taken the rifle apart and run into two issues.

1) The rear sight isn't moving on the range slide at all. Is mineral spirits for awhile the cure?

2) There is a stamped 'Z' on the fore stock by the nose cap and on the receiver. The store that sold it said it had been through a factory rebuild so I'm praying whatever issue it had was dealt with then. Is this as bad as I think it is?

I'll try and get some pictures up.

Thanks again
 
Looks like a very nice rifle you have there! :) There is something solid and satisfying about the #1 MKIII* SMLE's that make them come together as a good design overall. I would leave the crossbolt there, it serves a legitimate purpose. Indeed I have seen some pics of Australian SMLE's set up for service rifle matches, and they have a heavily rebuilt rear cross bolt. There is a rear crossbolt in every SMLE forend, why not have 2? I also have seen a fellow with a 1943 Long Branch #4 that had an Ishy screw which shot fine. The world is not imploding because you have a crossbolt in your rifle. Best regards, Tony.
 
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I rather doubt that a "Z" such as that one is any terrible harbinger of doom.

The "ZF" to be REALLY worried about is the one painted across the Butt in letters 2 inches high. Those are the killer.

Looks like a fine cleaning-up is underway.

You will have to let us all know how she shoots for you!

Good luck!
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I would almost say the Z is part of the serial number but I may be wrong. But if I am right it would mean its most likely a fairly late production rifle because if I remember correctly they had a set number of serials and when they used a set they just changed the letter prefix eg. H1526 - J1526
 
Lucite said:
I would almost say the Z is part of the serial number but I may be wrong. But if I am right it would mean its most likely a fairly late production rifle because if I remember correctly they had a set number of serials and when they used a set they just changed the letter prefix eg. H1526 - J1526
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help. It has GRI 40 FR markings on the wrist band which I take to mean a factory rebuild in 1940.

Best,
CDB
 
I took the Enfield out on the weekend to shoot and it seemed to work well. I was hitting a 2x10 from 100m consistently which I know isn't remarkable but there is a lot of 'operator error' at play. I've taken it apart again to put more coats of BLO on the stock and epoxy a couple small cracks before they get worse.

Hopefully I'll have an opportunity to take it out again this weekend although $27 ammo isn't very friendly.

Below is a picture of the rifle after the first coat of BLO and some cleaning of the metal. Thanks again for all the information, it has been tremendously helpful.

smle-apr-121.jpg
 
Take the wood off and spray with 50% amonia and water. The grime and oil will run out of the wood. rinse in hot water and do it again until you like it. Go easy as the stain will run also. you can re-stain if wood is really soaked in oil. This beats sanding. Then use marine grade teak oil to finish...about 3/4 coats.
 
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