M14 chamber

[svt1940]

Hi fellows M14 lovers I sent 3 fired case to Hungry so i can have an idea about my M305 chamber dimension. I got the rifle last summer from Marstar but didnt have time to shoot it until now. I wanted to know ore about the chamber dimension before making reloads. So my brass mesured .009 .009 and .010, according to Hungry, its relatively tight by chinese M14 standard. I want to have 4 reloads by case, any make. I have commercial brass and i hope to get NATO also. Should i go with partial sizing or regular full sizing? Like i said if i can get 4 safe reloads by case, i will be very happy. Since i'm new to the M14, any advices of experienced nutz is welcome I have read the sticky but looking for more opinions and experiences. Thankyou for your toughts!
Jocelyn

 

[slushee]

My brass mics in at .012. Been reloading for 4 years. Full length resize is safest using lee pacesetter dies as the rifle 'could' fire out of battery if you neck size and get dirt in chamber. Also safe to lee factory crimp as recoil could set the bullets in the case back some while in the magazing leading to high pressures. Also, because of a free float firing pin 'could' set off a primer, I'd suggest CCI primers as having a harder shell. Oh right, inspect case after every firing and pitch after 6 loads. That comes right out of handloading for M14 manuals by guys with years of experience.

Your milage may vary. I've always assumed it was better to load safe then to risk any of the above by neck sizing or using soft primers as its a battle rifle. It'll never be a long range precision rifle without some serious $ being spent.

With all that said, some will say they neck size, use the softest primers and reload a case 20 times. They are still alive, but I would expect their risk factor is way higher then mine.

 

[svt1940]

My brass mics in at .012. Been reloading for 4 years. Full length resize is safest using lee pacesetter dies as the rifle 'could' fire out of battery if you neck size and get dirt in chamber. Also safe to lee factory crimp as recoil could set the bullets in the case back some while in the magazing leading to high pressures. Also, because of a free float firing pin 'could' set off a primer, I'd suggest CCI primers as having a harder shell. Oh right, inspect case after every firing and pitch after 6 loads. That comes right out of handloading for M14 manuals by guys with years of experience.

Your milage may vary. I've always assumed it was better to load safe then to risk any of the above by neck sizing or using soft primers as its a battle rifle. It'll never be a long range precision rifle without some serious $ being spent.

With all that said, some will say they neck size, use the softest primers and reload a case 20 times. They are still alive, but I would expect their risk factor is way higher then mine.

Thankyou for your advices. As for dies, all mines are from Lee and i really like the factory crimp die. As for primers, i have CCI magnum since i will be reloading using BL-C2 powder. I only want battle rifle accuracy so no need to spend on scope or anything else. The only change was changing the rear sight for a Garand/BM59 one. For bullets, i have 150 and 165gr so i should be able to find a load that the rifle will like and cycle reliably without over stressing anything. I dont plan to over use cases, after inspection if i have any doubt, cases will be scrapped, .308 cases are so easy to find that doesn't justify to take shortcut aout security. Thanyou.
Jocelyn

 

[M14Doctor]

I'm a reloading newb as well and having taking advantage of the reloading skills of a couple trusted friends. They rely on the jerry kuhnhausen 30 cal service rifle shop manual and the book by glenn zediker.
The zediker method is apparently trusted by an awful lot of M14 owners in north america

 

[Old Ranger]

I've put about 1500rds through my 2007 Norinco M14. All reloads. Mostly 150 gr Hornady FMJ bulk bullets. Either Win or CCI standard primers. Mostly 4064 powder. RCBS full length dies- cases full length resized. Five reloads per case. Never had a problem or lost a case before discarding (scrap dealer or cast bullet loads for other rifles)

 

[sobo4303]

Mine was mic'd at .008. I full length resize, however I left a spacing of .005" from the base of the die and the top of the shell holder. Never had a single problem of case fatigue due to stretching. I also use the USGI spec of 2,700 fps too.

I bought a USGI bolt, and set it for about .0015". I no longer use the .005" gap.

 

[Oldsmobiler]

My advice to newbs is to start with good gear and the BASICS! Full length size, use components that are proven, recipes that have been around forever and only experiment when you are confident with your skills. You'd be surprised what a good load can do in these rifles. Then again its usually the operator that needs more help

 

[redshooter]

Thankyou for your advices. As for dies, all mines are from Lee and i really like the factory crimp die. As for primers, i have CCI magnum since i will be reloading using BL-C2 powder. I only want battle rifle accuracy so no need to spend on scope or anything else. The only change was changing the rear sight for a Garand/BM59 one. For bullets, i have 150 and 165gr so i should be able to find a load that the rifle will like and cycle reliably without over stressing anything. I dont plan to ever use cases, after inspection if i have any doubt, cases will be scrapped, .308 cases are so easy to find that doesn't justify to take shortcut aout security. Thanyou.
Jocelyn

I think you may want to reconsider your choice of powder. BL-C2 will work but it looks a little slow. I think it's safe to say the action will suffer long term damage from constant use of heavy bullets, heavy charges, or slow powders. I'm just starting to load for a gas gun so I must rely on others. One consistant theme is to use powders with a burn rate in the 4895 range, A quick look at Hornady's chart shows IMR 8208 XBR, IMR 4895, A2495, H4895, H335 are in the same range (from fastest to slowest). I've seen loads listed with powders as fast as IMR 3031 and as slow as IMR 4064 as ideal for the M-14/M1A and therefore M-305. Again refering to Hornady's chart that puts A2495 right in the middle. Some other charts (Sierra for example) are quite different from Hornady's but Hogdon's chart basically agrees with Hornady's. I'll go with the powder manufacture on this one. So after all that hot air, your best powder is IMR 4895, A2495, or H4895.

Here's a load to try, 41.5 gr IMR 4895, Hornady 168 gr Match, and CCI 200/Winchester LR primers. You will not be disapointed! Don't buy 168 A-Max, they may not stabilize in your barrel. 178 gr Hornady match may be too long as well. If you want to try some match bullets any 155 should work, 168 SMK/Hornady match, or 175 SMK's are great. Reading your comments it looks like the ideal bullet for you would be Hornady's 150 gr BT-FMJ or Sierra's 150 gr FMJBT. the good part is they are cheaper than the other bullets I've mentioned.

A few other thoughts, be very methodical about how you reload. Pay close attention to your case length and keep them trimed to the proper length. Also watch your C.O.L. keep it at the length your manual states (which should be 2.80"). A mistake can be very costly to your rifle or your health. Lee dies will work but I think you'll find them wanting over time. With my bolt guns I use a body die, neck die, and competition seater. For my gas gun I've a set of Redding small body dies on the way. Full length sizing will give more consistant feeding even if it may reduce case life. Regular Lee dies will work fine for sizing but I think you'll find any of the others will produce a better seating die. Your Lee crimp die is something You might want to use regardless if you get other dies. Not so much to keep your bullets from moving but to give a consistant neck tension. That should help keep your reloads long range performance more consistant. The die instructions suggest you turn it in a half turn after it touches the shell holder. That will be plenty, I just give it a gentle crimp, just a little less than half a turn.

There's no such thing as Battle Rifle accurate reloads. The tighter the group the better!

 

[Andy]

I think you may want to reconsider your choice of powder. BL-C2 will work but it looks a little slow.

I understand that the M80 ammo used in the M14 consisted of 46.0 grs of WC-846 under a 147gr FMJ bullet. WC-846 is a military pull-down powder that is duplicated by BLC-(2) and Win 748.

Am I mistaken?

I use 47.0 grs of BLC-(2) in military "DA" cases with the CCI #34 primer under the 150gr Hornady FMJ. The MV from my M305 is about 2700. No need for magnum primers - the CCI #34 ignites it consistently well.

Several other powders are excellent in the M305, such as 4895 and 4064, but I have found BLC-(2) works very well for me.

 

[redshooter]

I understand that the M80 ammo used in the M14 consisted of 46.0 grs of WC-846 under a 147gr FMJ bullet. WC-846 is a military pull-down powder that is duplicated by BLC-(2) and Win 748.

Am I mistaken?

I use 47.0 grs of BLC-(2) in military "DA" cases with the CCI #34 primer under the 150gr Hornady FMJ. The MV from my M305 is about 2700. No need for magnum primers - the CCI #34 ignites it consistently well.

Several other powders are excellent in the M305, such as 4895 and 4064, but I have found BLC-(2) works very well for me.

I understood the same thing, didn't know the powder but read it was similar to powder used in 7.62 ball. If I had a pound I'd use it, I'm not suggesting using a little of it will damage your rifle. To be honest I'm not sure that it will hurt anything. I also doubt that the burn rates are that different. The 4895's give similar performance to BL-C2, W-748, and Varget. I'm using IMR/H4895 because it's claimed to be perfect for the M-305 and it looks like it will be great in my .223 as well. If it does it will become my new standard.

There's no doubt though that BL-C2 is about as slow as you'd want to go assuming all the warnings about long term damage will occur using slow powder.

 

[redshooter]

I forgot to mention, if you can't afford a good digital scale then get a decent balance. I've had over twenty years of service from my RCBS 5-10 (WOW! just realized how long I've had it!!!). My brother works in a lab and he checked my scale to his and it was right on to the tenth, and that was at the 12 year mark.

 

[svt1940]

I think you may want to reconsider your choice of powder. BL-C2 will work but it looks a little slow. I think it's safe to say the action will suffer long term damage from constant use of heavy bullets, heavy charges, or slow powders. I'm just starting to load for a gas gun so I must rely on others. One consistant theme is to use powders with a burn rate in the 4895 range, A quick look at Hornady's chart shows IMR 8208 XBR, IMR 4895, A2495, H4895, H335 are in the same range (from fastest to slowest). I've seen loads listed with powders as fast as IMR 3031 and as slow as IMR 4064 as ideal for the M-14/M1A and therefore M-305. Again refering to Hornady's chart that puts A2495 right in the middle. Some other charts (Sierra for example) are quite different from Hornady's but Hogdon's chart basically agrees with Hornady's. I'll go with the powder manufacture on this one. So after all that hot air, your best powder is IMR 4895, A2495, or H4895.

Here's a load to try, 41.5 gr IMR 4895, Hornady 168 gr Match, and CCI 200/Winchester LR primers. You will not be disapointed! Don't buy 168 A-Max, they may not stabilize in your barrel. 178 gr Hornady match may be too long as well. If you want to try some match bullets any 155 should work, 168 SMK/Hornady match, or 175 SMK's are great. Reading your comments it looks like the ideal bullet for you would be Hornady's 150 gr BT-FMJ or Sierra's 150 gr FMJBT. the good part is they are cheaper than the other bullets I've mentioned.

A few other thoughts, be very methodical about how you reload. Pay close attention to your case length and keep them trimed to the proper length. Also watch your C.O.L. keep it at the length your manual states (which should be 2.80"). A mistake can be very costly to your rifle or your health. Lee dies will work but I think you'll find them wanting over time. With my bolt guns I use a body die, neck die, and competition seater. For my gas gun I've a set of Redding small body dies on the way. Full length sizing will give more consistant feeding even if it may reduce case life. Regular Lee dies will work fine for sizing but I think you'll find any of the others will produce a better seating die. Your Lee crimp die is something You might want to use regardless if you get other dies. Not so much to keep your bullets from moving but to give a consistant neck tension. That should help keep your reloads long range performance more consistant. The die instructions suggest you turn it in a half turn after it touches the shell holder. That will be plenty, I just give it a gentle crimp, just a little less than half a turn.

There's no such thing as Battle Rifle accurate reloads. The tighter the group the better!

Thankyou for your advices As Andy said, the BL-C2 is a powder that was made for the 7.62 NATO so was the reason i have it and i have H335 too. I did fews reloads for a bolt action rifle in the past using BL-C2 and showed excellent result and meter extremely well with my powder mesure. The bullet i have on hand are sierra 150gr FMJ/BT. After use of my mag primer, i will get CCI34. I will go with hogdon data from starting load and go up slowly to find a load that the rifle will like and will cycle reliably. I just need the damn snow to go away....... First, i'm a "red rifles" guy but more i handle my M305, more i like it and i want to shoot the s**t of it
Cheers, Jocelyn