20 burried brand new Spitfires

Ah yes, an old Spit complete with workable guns. The ultimate milsurp... To bad the full auto guns make it a prohib.... :D

If this pans out it could be a big shot in the arm for the wartime aviation field. As someone that likes planes I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 
Ah yes, an old Spit complete with workable guns. The ultimate milsurp... To bad the full auto guns make it a prohib.... :D

If this pans out it could be a big shot in the arm for the wartime aviation field. As someone that likes planes I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


The biggest question, is could you afford the avgas to fill the tanks. Close to 1500 litres with a drop tank from what I remember.

$2000 for a couple of hours at most.

For most people on this site, it would be a very pretty safe queen.

If those planes, do exist, every aviation museum in the world will want at least one. The bidding will be spectacular to say the least.
 
If those planes, do exist, every aviation museum in the world will want at least one. The bidding will be spectacular to say the least.

I agree, most WWII planes have re-painted and tinkered with so many times they hardly represent what they once were. I would LOVE to see some Spitfires in minty factory paint, exactly how they were buried. Hopefully they don't feel the need to "restore" these planes.

-Steve
 
I would LOVE to see some Spitfires in minty factory paint, exactly how they were buried. Hopefully they don't feel the need to "restore" these planes.

Crated, waxed, greased, or not - they've been in the ground, subject to groundwater likely for 70 years. The chances of them coming out in 'minty factory paint' are very slim, unless there was exceptional drainage in the surrounding ground, the planes were 100% moisture sealed, and the coatings didn't degrade over the intervening time.
 
.... Even if there are only a few parts it would be worth it.

Yup, theoretically all you REALLY need is the data plate to make an airworthy original Spitfire - if your pockets are deep enough, you can fabricate the rest from the original drawings.

Awesome. Now they just have to develop an alternative for the 100LL that will no longer be produced by the time these things are airworthy again (I heard the EPA is pushing for as soon as 2017 :eek: )

One 100LL alternative developed (but not certified or produced commercially) is G100UL http://ww w.gami.com/g100ul/g100ul.php
 
Can't afford it? No problem. Send one to Norc and it will make a fleet of cheap Spitfire knockoff for the have not crowd to enjoy.
 
WOW, this is an amazing story and endeavor for these lucky guys excavating these babies.
Love these planes.

To see another say 30 out of all the mentioned burial sites take to the skies would be amazingly epic.

to see a sqn fly in formation for rememberance days in years and for years to come would be epic as well, especially flying next or with a flyby of f-35's someday.
 
WOW, this is an amazing story and endeavor for these lucky guys excavating these babies.
Love these planes.

To see another say 30 out of all the mentioned burial sites take to the skies would be amazingly epic.

to see a sqn fly in formation for rememberance days in years and for years to come would be epic as well, especially flying next or with a flyby of f-35's someday.

It's starting to look like we might have a better chance of seeing these Spitfires than F-35s.
 
http://www.calgaryherald.com/hopes+bring+buried+Spitfires+from+earth/6461712/story.html

U.K. man hopes to bring buried Spitfires from the earth to the sky



By Adam Lusher, The Telegraph April 15, 2012

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/hopes+...s+from+earth/6461712/story.html#ixzz1sZP6MxU7

A U.K. man has discovered the location of 20 Supermarine Spitfires, like the plane in the foreground above, still in their packing crates, buried in Myanmar as a result of orders given near the end of the Second World War.
Photograph by: Herald Archive, Reuters , The Telegraph

Extraordinary plans to raise a lost squadron of Spitfires that has lain buried in Myanmar since the end of the Second World War were revealed this weekend as British Prime Minister David Cameron visited the capital, Yangon.

Now, the Lincolnshire farmer who devoted 15 years of his life to finding the planes has spoken about his quest to recover them and get them airborne.

David Cundall, 62, of Sandtoft, n e a r S####horpe, has spent more than $200,000, visited Myanmar 12 times, persuaded the country's secretive regime to trust him, and all the time sought testimony from a dwindling band of Far East veterans to locate the Spitfires.

His treasure hunt was sparked by little more than a throwaway remark from a group of U.S. veterans made 15 years ago to his friend and fellow aviation archeologist, Jim Pearce.

"They told Jim: 'We've done some pretty silly things in our time, but the silliest was burying Spitfires,' " Cundall said. "And when Jim got back from the U.S., he told me."

Cundall realized the Spitfires would have been buried as they had been shipped, still in their crates.

Before they were shipped to the Far East, they would have been waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred, to protect them against the elements. There seemed to be a chance that somewhere in Myanmar, there lay Spitfires that could be restored to flying condition.

The first step was to place advertisements in magazines, trying to find soldiers who buried Spitfires.

"The trouble was that many of them were dying of old age," Cundall said.

He visited Myanmar over and over, slowly building friendly relations with its military junta.

"In the end, they (Myanma minders) trusted me so much they would let me hold their AK-47s while they ate the lunch I had bought them."

Finally, he found the Spitfires, at a location that is being kept a secret.

"We sent a borehole down and used a camera to look at the crates," Cundall said. "They seemed to be in good condition."

In August 1945, the Mark XIV airplanes, which used Rolls-Royce Griffon engines instead of the Merlins of earlier models, were put in crates and transported from the factory in Castle Bromwich, in the West Midlands, to Myanmar.

Once they arrived, however, the Spitfires were deemed surplus to requirements.

The war was in its final months and fighting was increasingly confined to "islandhopping" to clear the Japanese of their remaining strongholds in the Pacific. Land-based Spitfires, as opposed to a carrierbased variant, Seafires, did not have the required range.

The order was given to bury 12 Spitfires without even unpacking them.

It is possible that a further eight Spitfires were then buried in December 1945, bringing the potential total to 20.

"In 1945, Spitfires were 10 a penny," Cundall said. "Jets were coming into service. Spitfires were struck off charge, unwanted. Lots of Spitfires were just pushed off the back of aircraft carriers into the sea. On land, you couldn't leave them for the locals - they might have ended up being used against you."

To meet the $800,000 cost of the excavation, Cundall enlisted the help of Steve Boultbee Brooks, a 51-year-old commercial property investor who runs the Boultbee Flight Academy in Chichester, West Sussex, which teaches people to fly in a two-seater Spitfire that Brooks bought for close to $3 million in 2009.

Ground radar images showed that inside the crates were Spitfires with their wings packed alongside the fuselages.

The Britons want to work to restore as many of the 20 Spitfires as possible and get them flying. There are only about 35 flying in the world.

"Spitfires are beautiful airplanes and should not be rotting away in a foreign land," Cundall said.

The final obstacle to recovering the Spitfires, however, is political: international sanctions forbid the movement of military materials in and out of Myanmar, and it was also feared the Myanmar government would not allow any foreign excavations.

However, because of the new, reforming stance of the Myanmar government, the sanctions on movement of military material will be lifted on April 23.

With the help of Cameron and his visit to Myanmar, a deal is being negotiated and hopes are high that it will conclude with Thein Sein, the president of Myanmar, granting permission for the dig.

"Our hope is that we can be digging them out in the next three or four weeks," said Brooks, who returned to his home Saturday after helping open negotiations.

"They have been in the ground for more than 65 years, so it is not a case of taking them out of the crates, putting them together and flying them. There is a lot of work to do. We may have to use parts of many planes to make perhaps a couple airworthy.

"But if the crates didn't get waterlogged, the Spitfires might be in pretty amazing condition. It's also encouraging that they put teak beams over the crates so they wouldn't be crushed by the earth when they were buried."

Cundall raised the tantalizing prospect that there may be more buried Spitfires.

"It's possible there are other Spitfires buried around different sites in Myanmar. I have heard about 36 in one burial; 18 in another; six in another. And when they were buried, they would have been brand new, never taken out of the box."
© Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/hopes+...s+from+earth/6461712/story.html#ixzz1sZPSEzLT
 
Hmm...buried for 70 years.

They will be hunks of scrap metal and memories. Has anyone ever seen that hyped event where they open the time capsule with the car - supposedly encased in concrete. It was a mass of dissolving metal when they opened it.

Now fast forward this to the jungles, where on the surface, metals have to be protected from oxidation within days. Buried has a whole host of other problems.

It is likely that anything not aluminum or protected will have long since dissolved. Kinda reminds of all those Titanic stories I heard growing up as a kid, where the boat could be raised (oil balloons, cables, etc.)...according to the experts. That was until 1986...when those same experts crawled back into their labs without a word. It would be a fantastic find, don't get me wrong, but I think in getting our hopes up, we will be as disappointed as when we all watched two hours of Geraldo opening up Capone's safe to find....nothing.
 
It's a very cool story and I truly hope there is something left of the Spits to excavate.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/hopes+bring+buried+Spitfires+from+earth/6461712/story.html

U.K. man hopes to bring buried Spitfires from the earth to the sky



By Adam Lusher, The Telegraph April 15, 2012

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/hopes+...s+from+earth/6461712/story.html#ixzz1sZP6MxU7

A U.K. man has discovered the location of 20 Supermarine Spitfires, like the plane in the foreground above, still in their packing crates, buried in Myanmar as a result of orders given near the end of the Second World War.
Photograph by: Herald Archive, Reuters , The Telegraph

Extraordinary plans to raise a lost squadron of Spitfires that has lain buried in Myanmar since the end of the Second World War were revealed this weekend as British Prime Minister David Cameron visited the capital, Yangon.

Now, the Lincolnshire farmer who devoted 15 years of his life to finding the planes has spoken about his quest to recover them and get them airborne.

David Cundall, 62, of Sandtoft, n e a r S****horpe, has spent more than $200,000, visited Myanmar 12 times, persuaded the country's secretive regime to trust him, and all the time sought testimony from a dwindling band of Far East veterans to locate the Spitfires.

His treasure hunt was sparked by little more than a throwaway remark from a group of U.S. veterans made 15 years ago to his friend and fellow aviation archeologist, Jim Pearce.

"They told Jim: 'We've done some pretty silly things in our time, but the silliest was burying Spitfires,' " Cundall said. "And when Jim got back from the U.S., he told me."

Cundall realized the Spitfires would have been buried as they had been shipped, still in their crates.

Before they were shipped to the Far East, they would have been waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred, to protect them against the elements. There seemed to be a chance that somewhere in Myanmar, there lay Spitfires that could be restored to flying condition.

The first step was to place advertisements in magazines, trying to find soldiers who buried Spitfires.

"The trouble was that many of them were dying of old age," Cundall said.

He visited Myanmar over and over, slowly building friendly relations with its military junta.

"In the end, they (Myanma minders) trusted me so much they would let me hold their AK-47s while they ate the lunch I had bought them."

Finally, he found the Spitfires, at a location that is being kept a secret.

"We sent a borehole down and used a camera to look at the crates," Cundall said. "They seemed to be in good condition."

In August 1945, the Mark XIV airplanes, which used Rolls-Royce Griffon engines instead of the Merlins of earlier models, were put in crates and transported from the factory in Castle Bromwich, in the West Midlands, to Myanmar.

Once they arrived, however, the Spitfires were deemed surplus to requirements.

The war was in its final months and fighting was increasingly confined to "islandhopping" to clear the Japanese of their remaining strongholds in the Pacific. Land-based Spitfires, as opposed to a carrierbased variant, Seafires, did not have the required range.

The order was given to bury 12 Spitfires without even unpacking them.

It is possible that a further eight Spitfires were then buried in December 1945, bringing the potential total to 20.

"In 1945, Spitfires were 10 a penny," Cundall said. "Jets were coming into service. Spitfires were struck off charge, unwanted. Lots of Spitfires were just pushed off the back of aircraft carriers into the sea. On land, you couldn't leave them for the locals - they might have ended up being used against you."

To meet the $800,000 cost of the excavation, Cundall enlisted the help of Steve Boultbee Brooks, a 51-year-old commercial property investor who runs the Boultbee Flight Academy in Chichester, West Sussex, which teaches people to fly in a two-seater Spitfire that Brooks bought for close to $3 million in 2009.

Ground radar images showed that inside the crates were Spitfires with their wings packed alongside the fuselages.

The Britons want to work to restore as many of the 20 Spitfires as possible and get them flying. There are only about 35 flying in the world.

"Spitfires are beautiful airplanes and should not be rotting away in a foreign land," Cundall said.

The final obstacle to recovering the Spitfires, however, is political: international sanctions forbid the movement of military materials in and out of Myanmar, and it was also feared the Myanmar government would not allow any foreign excavations.

However, because of the new, reforming stance of the Myanmar government, the sanctions on movement of military material will be lifted on April 23.

With the help of Cameron and his visit to Myanmar, a deal is being negotiated and hopes are high that it will conclude with Thein Sein, the president of Myanmar, granting permission for the dig.

"Our hope is that we can be digging them out in the next three or four weeks," said Brooks, who returned to his home Saturday after helping open negotiations.

"They have been in the ground for more than 65 years, so it is not a case of taking them out of the crates, putting them together and flying them. There is a lot of work to do. We may have to use parts of many planes to make perhaps a couple airworthy.

"But if the crates didn't get waterlogged, the Spitfires might be in pretty amazing condition. It's also encouraging that they put teak beams over the crates so they wouldn't be crushed by the earth when they were buried."

Cundall raised the tantalizing prospect that there may be more buried Spitfires.

"It's possible there are other Spitfires buried around different sites in Myanmar. I have heard about 36 in one burial; 18 in another; six in another. And when they were buried, they would have been brand new, never taken out of the box."
© Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/hopes+...s+from+earth/6461712/story.html#ixzz1sZPSEzLT
 
Crated, waxed, greased, or not - they've been in the ground, subject to groundwater likely for 70 years. The chances of them coming out in 'minty factory paint' are very slim, unless there was exceptional drainage in the surrounding ground, the planes were 100% moisture sealed, and the coatings didn't degrade over the intervening time.

It would depend on the condition of the water, and the temp. There were roughly 100-200 (estimates vary depending where you read them) WWII aircraft submerged in Lake Michigan that are slowly being pulled out of the drink over the last few decades. Some of them are in pretty nice condition considering. Of course, the fabric control surfaces are undoubtedly rotted. In case, anyone wasn't aware, there was a carrier training base on Lake Michigan during WWII, and some WWII aircraft were converted to trainers, and ended up in the lake over the course of the training program there.

The company recovering these planes is A&T Recovery: http://www.atrecovery.com/Pages/Airplanes.htm

This SBD-5 (B-23) is now sitting at the Pearl Harbor Aviation Museum on Oahu. Pretty nice condition for 50 years in the water. Even in the museum its still mostly wearing its original paint.

Being pulled out of Lake Michigan

On display at the Pacific Aviation Museum

Leif
 
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Is that how many aircraft crashed during aircraft carrier qualifications?? :eek:

Or were they dumped there?

It would depend on the condition of the water, and the temp. There are roughly 300-400 WWII aircraft submerged in Lake Michigan that are slowly being pulled out of the drink over the last few decades. Some of them are in pretty nice condition considering. Of course, the fabric control surfaces are undoubtedly rotted. In case, anyone wasn't aware, there was a carrier training base on Lake Michigan during WWII, and some WWII aircraft were converted to trainers, and ended up in the lake over the course of the training program there.

The company recovering these planes is A&T Recovery: http://www.atrecovery.com/Pages/Airplanes.htm

This SBD-5 (B-23) is now sitting at the Pearl Harbor Aviation Museum on Oahu. Pretty nice condition for 50 years in the water. Even in the museum its still mostly wearing its original paint.

Being pulled out of Lake Michigan

On display at the Pacific Aviation Museum

Leif
 
Is that how many aircraft crashed during aircraft carrier qualifications?? :eek:

Or were they dumped there?

That's just a rough estimate based on what I've read, and they were mostly due to mechanical failure or pilot error from what I understand, and not purposely dumped there (unless some were wrecks on the deck that needed to be cleared). That number could be way off.

Here's the A&T Recovery page related to the history of the Lake Michigan qualification training. Seems they've recovered more than 30 so far.

http://www.atrecovery.com/Pages/AircraftCarrier.htm


EDIT: Just doing a quick google I see other estimates of 120+ losses, and 60+ still in the lake. So chances are the 300-400 number was just an exaggerated number I've read in a media release that stuck in my head. I'll edit my comment to be more reasonable.
 
As an aircraft mechanic I can tell you they will be in rough shape. We have a tough enough time keeping the ones above the ground from rotting away, let alone something below the ground.
 
As an aircraft mechanic I can tell you they will be in rough shape. We have a tough enough time keeping the ones above the ground from rotting away, let alone something below the ground.

Well, we will have to wait till they dig one up. Their have been quite a few surprises over the years in terms of things dug up.

I think even if they can only get one in good shape it would be worth it.
 
I took a tour of the Shearwater Aviation Museum a while back, courtesy of their very accomodating, nice, and knowledgeable curator there. For a long time I was aware they had at least one Fairey Firefly aircraft. The story behind them is quite interesting. They were found at a deserted airbase in Ethiopia or Eritrea. The cannons were still loaded. As far as I know they were used for strafing in the various wars Ethiopia was involved in since 1945. The plane (s) and spares were brought back to Canada around 1984 and the plane is still being restored.

As far as I know the Fireflies retrieved from Ethiopia were former RCN Fleet Air Arm craft, from either HMCS Warrior or HMCS Magnificent. :p
 
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My accountant flew the Spit XIV in WW2. he commented that it was a bomber interceptor and could get to altitude quickly.

It was bit different that the earlier models. It had both 20mm canon and 50 cal Brownings, a 5 bladed prop that spun the opposite direction than the Merlin.

Gas was very high octane - 150. I bet that is hard to find, now. he said it burned a gallon a minute.

"The Spitfire XIV was a short range medium-high altitude fighter combining the Spitfire Mk VIII airframe with a Rolls-Royce Griffon engine. Armament was either: B wing - 2 x 20 mm cannon and 4 x .303 Browning guns, or E wing - 2 x 20 mm cannon and .50 Browning guns. The operational weight with full fuel and ammunition was 8,400 lbs. It was fitted with a two-speed, two-stage Griffon 65 engine of 2,220 h.p. Internal fuel capacity was 112 gallons with pick-up points provided for carrying of 30 gallon, 45 gallon or 90 gallon drop tanks. Later models could be equipped with a 33 gallon rear fuselage tank. In appearence it was very similar to the Spitfire XII with normal wings, except that it had a five-bladed propeller. The fin and rudder were further modified. Production models entering service beginning in February 1945 featured a cut-back rear fuselage and teardrop bubble canopy."

Here is a link to the Pilot's Handbook. A pretty simple plane by today's standards.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4599005/Pilots-notes-Spitfire-XIVXIX-Griffon-65-or-66-Engines
 
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