Those old presses have a reputation for problematic primer feeding. Call Hornady, be nice, and see what they say - but my money says they won't - good luck! Let us know.
dillon / lee / hornady progressive comparison
- Thread starter acrashb
- Start date
Again, this is your opinion, and maybe experience with your equipment.
I have had good experience with my Dillon powder measures, as have a vast many. There are thousands if not tens of thousands of Dillon slide bar measures out there working and working well. If there was such an epidemic failure of them there would have been a change in design or a cottage industry (kinda like the cottage industry that has popped up to offer fixes for the Hornady PTXs?....) popped up to address these issues.
As I've said previously, I have not indicated the issues do not exist at all; only the two designs have or can have, the same issues.
The Hornady does not require less tools to set up, nor operate.
Your statement to that effect, and your insistance that they do, is incorrect.
superd222
CGN frequent flyer
I've been using a single stage press exclusively for the past 10 years.
Now I'm just starting to think about progressive...
Great article!!! Thanks for your time and effort - very well done!
Now I'm just starting to think about progressive...
Great article!!! Thanks for your time and effort - very well done!
Sgt.Begood
New member
http://ultimatereloader.com/
This is very good web site for info,check it out!
This is very good web site for info,check it out!
Got Juice?
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Peoples Republik of Kanukkistan
After wading through a lot of information, I purchased a Dillon 550B last year. To date it has loaded over 50,000 rounds of ammunition in .40 and 38 super.
Not one part has broken, or failed, or exploded.
A lot of folks like auto index, and that is my only quibble with the 550 is it does not auto index. That said, it is rock solid, and all ammunition is repeatable in OAL and charge, and quality.
Indexing by hand is not that tough really, even if it does cost a few rounds of production per hour.
I love it's simplicity and ease of adjustments between calibers. The only addition I plan to make is a micrometer powder bar.
I like simple. Less to go wrong in the long run
Great review otherwise!
Not one part has broken, or failed, or exploded.
A lot of folks like auto index, and that is my only quibble with the 550 is it does not auto index. That said, it is rock solid, and all ammunition is repeatable in OAL and charge, and quality.
Indexing by hand is not that tough really, even if it does cost a few rounds of production per hour.
I love it's simplicity and ease of adjustments between calibers. The only addition I plan to make is a micrometer powder bar.
I like simple. Less to go wrong in the long run
Great review otherwise!
Just read your informative and unbiased comparison... Ive always been leaning toward the Hornady when it came time to start rollin out my own... Your article has seemed to help the decision lean closer toward the Hornady.
But bottom line ... This was a DAMNED GOOD ARTICLE... PERIOD... Many thanks, as there arent that many people out there that would invest the time into the comparison youve done, let alone write of it.
Thank You!!
But bottom line ... This was a DAMNED GOOD ARTICLE... PERIOD... Many thanks, as there arent that many people out there that would invest the time into the comparison youve done, let alone write of it.
Thank You!!
stripperclip
New member
- Location
- okanagan, bc
ok.
so i am a VIRGIN reloader. I am COLOR BLIND.
as a matter of fact, i've been wrestling with the Dillon/Hornady/Lee/RCBS debate for MONTHS.
I want a progressive, auto indexing press, PERIOD.
(i am NOT affiliated with ultimatereloader.com, but their videos helped my research a LOT; and NOT just with any specific brand).
i have looked at the Dillon 650xl, Hornady LnL AMMO PLANT, RCBS PRO 2000, and Lee Loadmaster with an objective vision, and came to the following conclusions (for my needs):
A. Lee Loadmaster
(i actually considered a LM, for the price, UNTIL i researched the other brands, THANK GOD.).
PROS:
1. COST. However, you get what you pay for...
2. SIZE. compared to the others, the LM press is tiny.
CONS:
1. the Lee only has a 2 year warranty. strike 1.
2. LM has WAY too many breakable PLASTIC parts. strike 2
3. not enough die stations... STRIKE 3
ok...
4. the primer system is horrible. if you need an "explosion shield" when loading "other than CCI or Remington Primers" ?? WTF!!??
http://leeprecision.com/lm-explosion-shield.html
sorry no thanks; i should be able to use WHATEVER BRAND PRIMERS that i choose to use without special safety precautions(other than regular protection). STRIKE 4.
5. their bullet feeder is horrible(bullet drops and misfeeds). Strike 5... need i go on?
i heard of Dillon, but i heard that their prices were rediculous. so i continued my research into other brands first...
B. then i went to the Hornady LnL AMMO PLANT.
i discovered this press by accident; a friend(who is NOT a reloader) gave me a "GET LOADED" promo flyer, while i was in an outdoor store with him one sunday afternoon. he knew i was shopping for a press...
PROs:
1. LIFETIME WARRANTY.
2. the "GET LOADED 2012" promo promises 500 bullets to LNL purchase. 100 extra bullets if you purchase Hornady milenium dies. nice!
3. Priming system uses tube feeder system. IMO better than the LEE LM. the sliding mechanism is pretty simple.
4. Case feeder is more robust/automatic than LEE. includes electric coallator.
5. the case retention spring, around the shellplate is brilliant, and simple. hard to lose or misplace.
6. Hornady now offers the LnL AMMO PLANT with EZject; includes everything needed to reload other than the dies, shellplate, and consummables. it even includes the powder check die, 10 quick change bushings, and bullet & case feeder.
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Ammo-Plant-110-VT/
7. i love the LnL quick change bushings, and how easy it is to store the dies when not in use.
8. Hornady LnL Ammo Plant INCLUDES a bullet feeder with electric coallator.
9. spent primer system was well thought out.
CONS:
1. Hornady dealers in the Kelowna, BC area (with stock) are impossible to find. everyone knows about the LnL, but no one has anything other than consumables and flyers. STRIKE 1. they must be selling like HOTCAKES!
2. i cannot buy a press off their web site. STRIKE 2.vrec:
(scuse me, i need to grab another guinness...)
C. The Dillon 650XL
so during my hunt for the LnL locally, i went into an "unnamed" firearms store with a quote for the LnL AP, that i got online. the staff introduced me to the owner, who refused to sell me a LnL for my previously quoted price(he said he couldn't match it); then proceeded to try to "aggressively" sell me a dillon 650xl. his quote he scribbled onto my quote for the LnL, would've saved me about $200cdn (including a case feeder)HOWEVER, it didnt include a bullet feeder. i asked him about a dillon bullet feeder, and he said dillon didnt make one.
so, instead of impulse buying the 650xl and saving a few $$, i returned home, and did more research...
PROS:
1. Lifetime "NO BS" warranty. pretty much the same as the LNL.
2. the store offered me a 650xl for less than the LnL AMMO PLANT, however it didnt include a bullet feeder... the Hornady bullet feeder is around $400. so would i have actually saved $$?? nope.
3. i saw a 650xl "in the store". it was pretty nice. very robust looking. something you could "throw against the wall" (figuratively speaking)and it would still work...
4. the local dealer had one in stock, and i could drive home with one anytime. this is a bonus for me.
5. dillon has primer feed/powder charge alarm options. however i could just as easily adapt them to the LnL if i REALLY needed them.
6. it includes one caliber setup, saving money.
7. primer system (very important for me after looking at the LM) is a tube fed system.
CONS: (IMO)
1. the priming system looks somewhat complex, the circular 'geared" priming plate looks like it would need a lot of maintenance, compared to the LnL. the more complicated something; USUALLY the more things F*uck up. also, primer size changes become more complicated. STRIKE 1.
2. i absolutely hate the powder drop. it reminds me of the slider system on the Lee LM (cut and inconsistant drops, no thanks). STRIKE 2... although the alarm is pretty cool.
3. while the 650 comes with one caliber setup(saving money), it costs more to change the toolhead and other parts needed for a caliber change. STRIKE 3.
4. caliber change toolheads WILL take up far more space than the LnL. STRIKE 4.
5. the dillon has small parts, like the "locator buttons" which could be easily lost. while not a huge issue, this could affect useability if items were lost.
6. NO BULLET FEEDER OPTIONS FROM DILLON. while not a big deal, i wondered why dilon didnt offer this option to its' customers...
7. i don't really care how much larger the bullet catch bin is on a dillon compared to the LnL, or any other press. dumping the ammo from a bin is no big deal. if i need something larger, i'll just go and buy a larger one for $4.
i briefly looked into redding, but the T7 or other redding presses aren't progressives, so i didn't research them any further.
D. so at this point, to round out my research(and for fun), i looked at the RCBS PRO 2000.
PROS:
1. the powder drop looked pretty good. very similiar to the RCBS and LnL. no "sliding bar" system.
2. the press looks pretty robust.
3. primer seats on the "upstroke".
CONS:
1. the priming system, while unique, using "strips" completely turned me off. the different colored strips are interesting but i still dont like the overall priming system. it probably takes more time to load RCBS strips than it takes to prep a dillon. STRIKE 1.
2. price. compared to the other brands and what it offers, the 2000 is overpriced.
https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=6024&route=C04J147 STRIKE 2.
3. i dont like the fact that station 3 is fixed... STRIKE 3.
4. brass and bullets are fed into the press from the same side. odd to use same hand to load brass and bullets with same hand, almost slows down the reloading process instead of using both hands IMO.
5. i havent seen anything about RCBS warranties; at least nothing like the dillon brand.
the 2000 almost looks like a dillon(with its' toolhead design) and the hornady(with its powder drop).
thank you very much for the review acrashb.
as a new reloader, i like to see an unbiasted opinion on equipment. from what ive seen lately, the dillon "crew" are really pushy, almost to the point of being obsessive. pretty scary. even worse than the GM/FORD argument...
the "other" brand sales people take their time, are passive, and pretty much back off, letting the buyer make their own decisions... the way i see it, the product should sell itself...
so what have i decided on? well, i decided to wait until i can see a LnL in person.
a store locally said it would have an ammo plant in a few weeks, that i could look at.
one thing that REALLY bothered me, was the store owner that tried to push the dillon on me. if the dillon presses are so great, then why the aggressive behaviour? was he just trying to get rid of old stock or something? if they were that great, the presses would sell themselves... this makes me wonder if maybe the dillon crowd feels "threatened" by the new design of the LnL.
pretty funny...
at this point, i am leaning towards the Hornady LnL, but at this point, i wont make my final decision til i see a LnL in person.
so i am a VIRGIN reloader. I am COLOR BLIND.
as a matter of fact, i've been wrestling with the Dillon/Hornady/Lee/RCBS debate for MONTHS.
I want a progressive, auto indexing press, PERIOD.
(i am NOT affiliated with ultimatereloader.com, but their videos helped my research a LOT; and NOT just with any specific brand).
i have looked at the Dillon 650xl, Hornady LnL AMMO PLANT, RCBS PRO 2000, and Lee Loadmaster with an objective vision, and came to the following conclusions (for my needs):
A. Lee Loadmaster
(i actually considered a LM, for the price, UNTIL i researched the other brands, THANK GOD.).
PROS:
1. COST. However, you get what you pay for...
2. SIZE. compared to the others, the LM press is tiny.
CONS:
1. the Lee only has a 2 year warranty. strike 1.
2. LM has WAY too many breakable PLASTIC parts. strike 2
3. not enough die stations... STRIKE 3
ok...
4. the primer system is horrible. if you need an "explosion shield" when loading "other than CCI or Remington Primers" ?? WTF!!??
http://leeprecision.com/lm-explosion-shield.html
sorry no thanks; i should be able to use WHATEVER BRAND PRIMERS that i choose to use without special safety precautions(other than regular protection). STRIKE 4.
5. their bullet feeder is horrible(bullet drops and misfeeds). Strike 5... need i go on?
i heard of Dillon, but i heard that their prices were rediculous. so i continued my research into other brands first...
B. then i went to the Hornady LnL AMMO PLANT.
i discovered this press by accident; a friend(who is NOT a reloader) gave me a "GET LOADED" promo flyer, while i was in an outdoor store with him one sunday afternoon. he knew i was shopping for a press...
PROs:
1. LIFETIME WARRANTY.
2. the "GET LOADED 2012" promo promises 500 bullets to LNL purchase. 100 extra bullets if you purchase Hornady milenium dies. nice!
3. Priming system uses tube feeder system. IMO better than the LEE LM. the sliding mechanism is pretty simple.
4. Case feeder is more robust/automatic than LEE. includes electric coallator.
5. the case retention spring, around the shellplate is brilliant, and simple. hard to lose or misplace.
6. Hornady now offers the LnL AMMO PLANT with EZject; includes everything needed to reload other than the dies, shellplate, and consummables. it even includes the powder check die, 10 quick change bushings, and bullet & case feeder.
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Ammo-Plant-110-VT/
7. i love the LnL quick change bushings, and how easy it is to store the dies when not in use.
8. Hornady LnL Ammo Plant INCLUDES a bullet feeder with electric coallator.
9. spent primer system was well thought out.
CONS:
1. Hornady dealers in the Kelowna, BC area (with stock) are impossible to find. everyone knows about the LnL, but no one has anything other than consumables and flyers.
STRIKE 1. they must be selling like HOTCAKES! 2. i cannot buy a press off their web site. STRIKE 2.
vrec:(scuse me, i need to grab another guinness...
)C. The Dillon 650XL
so during my hunt for the LnL locally, i went into an "unnamed" firearms store with a quote for the LnL AP, that i got online. the staff introduced me to the owner, who refused to sell me a LnL for my previously quoted price(he said he couldn't match it); then proceeded to try to "aggressively" sell me a dillon 650xl. his quote he scribbled onto my quote for the LnL, would've saved me about $200cdn (including a case feeder)HOWEVER, it didnt include a bullet feeder. i asked him about a dillon bullet feeder, and he said dillon didnt make one.
so, instead of impulse buying the 650xl and saving a few $$, i returned home, and did more research...
PROS:
1. Lifetime "NO BS" warranty. pretty much the same as the LNL.
2. the store offered me a 650xl for less than the LnL AMMO PLANT, however it didnt include a bullet feeder... the Hornady bullet feeder is around $400. so would i have actually saved $$?? nope.
3. i saw a 650xl "in the store". it was pretty nice. very robust looking. something you could "throw against the wall" (figuratively speaking)and it would still work...
4. the local dealer had one in stock, and i could drive home with one anytime. this is a bonus for me.
5. dillon has primer feed/powder charge alarm options.
however i could just as easily adapt them to the LnL if i REALLY needed them. 6. it includes one caliber setup, saving money.
7. primer system (very important for me after looking at the LM) is a tube fed system.
CONS: (IMO)
1. the priming system looks somewhat complex, the circular 'geared" priming plate looks like it would need a lot of maintenance, compared to the LnL. the more complicated something; USUALLY the more things F*uck up. also, primer size changes become more complicated. STRIKE 1.
2. i absolutely hate the powder drop. it reminds me of the slider system on the Lee LM (cut and inconsistant drops, no thanks). STRIKE 2... although the alarm is pretty cool.
3. while the 650 comes with one caliber setup(saving money), it costs more to change the toolhead and other parts needed for a caliber change. STRIKE 3.
4. caliber change toolheads WILL take up far more space than the LnL. STRIKE 4.
5. the dillon has small parts, like the "locator buttons" which could be easily lost. while not a huge issue, this could affect useability if items were lost.
6. NO BULLET FEEDER OPTIONS FROM DILLON. while not a big deal, i wondered why dilon didnt offer this option to its' customers...
7. i don't really care how much larger the bullet catch bin is on a dillon compared to the LnL, or any other press. dumping the ammo from a bin is no big deal. if i need something larger, i'll just go and buy a larger one for $4.
i briefly looked into redding, but the T7 or other redding presses aren't progressives, so i didn't research them any further.
D. so at this point, to round out my research(and for fun), i looked at the RCBS PRO 2000.
PROS:
1. the powder drop looked pretty good. very similiar to the RCBS and LnL. no "sliding bar" system.
2. the press looks pretty robust.
3. primer seats on the "upstroke".
CONS:
1. the priming system, while unique, using "strips" completely turned me off. the different colored strips are interesting but i still dont like the overall priming system. it probably takes more time to load RCBS strips than it takes to prep a dillon. STRIKE 1.
2. price. compared to the other brands and what it offers, the 2000 is overpriced.
https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=6024&route=C04J147 STRIKE 2.
3. i dont like the fact that station 3 is fixed...
STRIKE 3.4. brass and bullets are fed into the press from the same side. odd to use same hand to load brass and bullets with same hand, almost slows down the reloading process instead of using both hands IMO.
5. i havent seen anything about RCBS warranties; at least nothing like the dillon brand.
the 2000 almost looks like a dillon(with its' toolhead design) and the hornady(with its powder drop).
thank you very much for the review acrashb.
as a new reloader, i like to see an unbiasted opinion on equipment. from what ive seen lately, the dillon "crew" are really pushy, almost to the point of being obsessive. pretty scary. even worse than the GM/FORD argument...
the "other" brand sales people take their time, are passive, and pretty much back off, letting the buyer make their own decisions... the way i see it, the product should sell itself...
so what have i decided on? well, i decided to wait until i can see a LnL in person.
a store locally said it would have an ammo plant in a few weeks, that i could look at.
one thing that REALLY bothered me, was the store owner that tried to push the dillon on me. if the dillon presses are so great, then why the aggressive behaviour? was he just trying to get rid of old stock or something? if they were that great, the presses would sell themselves... this makes me wonder if maybe the dillon crowd feels "threatened" by the new design of the LnL.
pretty funny...
at this point, i am leaning towards the Hornady LnL, but at this point, i wont make my final decision til i see a LnL in person.
. if the dillon presses are so great, then why the aggressive behaviour? was he just trying to get rid of old stock or something? if they were that great, the presses would sell themselves... this makes me wonder if maybe the dillon crowd feels "threatened" by the new design of the LnL.
pretty funny...
"Human Nature" stripperclip. That's all it is. People defend their decisions and when it comes right down to it, if you're happy with your choices, why wouldn't you recommend them?
I bought my L&L AP a long time ago using acrashb's excellent comparison as a guide. Hornady had recently introduced the Ezeject system which corrected a "rather serious" problem with the press and the aggressive pricing of the L&L, at that time, made it the obvious choice over the 650.
Over time, things change. Hornady has stopped giving the L&L away and it now seems that the L&L price advantage has largely dissipated making choices more difficult. You still get free bullets with a Hornady purchase and while this offers no technical merit to the press it would be stupid indeed not to consider them in a price comparison. Presses aren't much good without the bullets.
In the main, owners of both the 650 and the L&L AP love em. You can, therefore, be twice as happy as everyone else. Buy both
.
Hornady bullet feeder does not feed rifle bullets yet...big Con.
Mr Bulletfeeder / Kiss is coming out with a new revised model by June, should be much nicer from what I've seen and may be cheaper than the Hornady. And it will do Rifle (.223).
However we'll see if Hornady has their rifle adapter out by June as well.
Mr Bulletfeeder / Kiss is coming out with a new revised model by June, should be much nicer from what I've seen and may be cheaper than the Hornady. And it will do Rifle (.223).
However we'll see if Hornady has their rifle adapter out by June as well.
Where did this info come from? Every time I talk to Rick the guy who makes Mr. Bullet feeder he is on a 15 week waiting period for new orders, it would not be smart to re engineer something that works and sells...
He did say he would sell the company so maybe that did happen? I am looking for another soon do you have any photo's or other info? I suppose I could call him...
Where did this info come from? Every time I talk to Rick the guy who makes Mr. Bullet feeder he is on a 15 week waiting period for new orders, it would not be smart to re engineer something that works and sells...
He did say he would sell the company so maybe that did happen? I am looking for another soon do you have any photo's or other info? I suppose I could call him...
I would give him a call because I also read the same thing somewhere, it even had a picture of a prototype.
The picture of the prototype had the new bullet feeder attached to the 650's case feeder's mounting arm. IMHO the design looked good, but I'm not sure about the POTENTIAL reliability issues that this design COULD cause. It was a picture of a prototype, so the final design may have changed.
Thanks acrashb!
acrashb,
Thanks for an extremely well-written review. I hope that you're able to get that loaner RCBS auto-progressive so you can review it and have all of the big four in your article.
I'm a new reloader, with just a few hundred rounds under my belt. I learned on my friend/mentor's old RCBS single-stage with 7.62X54R and .223 REM, then moved on to do some .45 Auto on a Dillon 550 manual indexing progressive.
Now I'm looking to purchase my first press, and although I know I'll want a single-stage eventually, my focus right now is pistol action shooting so I've decided to get an auto progressive.
I have to say that the Dillon 550 is a fantastic machine, and at first I was bound and determined to get a 650. One of my shooting buddies mentionned the Hornady LNL, but I was still stuck on Dillon until I started running the numbers and realized that by the time I get all of the equipment I want, the difference in price could well equate to any number of other equipment I need, like an IPSC rig.
I've spent all week reading and watching videos, and your review is by far the best side-by-side comparison I've found. Between it and the videos I've seen of these presses in action, I'm starting to feel ready to commit.
I do have one question though. Assuming I don't want to get the case feeder right away, can either or both of the LNL and the Dillon 650 be configured so that case and bullet enter the press from opposite sides? I had a nice rythm going with the 550 - Right hand case on, check powder, left hand bullet on, right hand stroke press - and having to do both case and bullet with the same hand seems like a (minor) PITA.
I know it's a small thing, but with the two presses being excellent machines with minor differences (assuming you're not too stuck on price), it seems to me that any decision between the two revolves around small things.
Thanks again for your great review.
acrashb,
Thanks for an extremely well-written review. I hope that you're able to get that loaner RCBS auto-progressive so you can review it and have all of the big four in your article.
I'm a new reloader, with just a few hundred rounds under my belt. I learned on my friend/mentor's old RCBS single-stage with 7.62X54R and .223 REM, then moved on to do some .45 Auto on a Dillon 550 manual indexing progressive.
Now I'm looking to purchase my first press, and although I know I'll want a single-stage eventually, my focus right now is pistol action shooting so I've decided to get an auto progressive.
I have to say that the Dillon 550 is a fantastic machine, and at first I was bound and determined to get a 650. One of my shooting buddies mentionned the Hornady LNL, but I was still stuck on Dillon until I started running the numbers and realized that by the time I get all of the equipment I want, the difference in price could well equate to any number of other equipment I need, like an IPSC rig.
I've spent all week reading and watching videos, and your review is by far the best side-by-side comparison I've found. Between it and the videos I've seen of these presses in action, I'm starting to feel ready to commit.
I do have one question though. Assuming I don't want to get the case feeder right away, can either or both of the LNL and the Dillon 650 be configured so that case and bullet enter the press from opposite sides? I had a nice rythm going with the 550 - Right hand case on, check powder, left hand bullet on, right hand stroke press - and having to do both case and bullet with the same hand seems like a (minor) PITA.
I know it's a small thing, but with the two presses being excellent machines with minor differences (assuming you're not too stuck on price), it seems to me that any decision between the two revolves around small things.
Thanks again for your great review.
I just got off the phone with Rick, he is still the north American supplier of the bullet feeder but has partnered with DAA to make them (mass produce them), they have changed the design and it will hang off of the case feeder bowl...
The price has dropped he thinks to around $450 (he will not know for sure untill they arrive at his place with costing) with one caliber and around 100 bucks for each conversion... So its a little cheaper but still lots more than the Hornady, I ordered one and will use it on my Hornady...
Hi Murray. With the LNL this won't be a problem, particularly if you use the case mouth expander incorporated into the powder measure/drop. I don't. I insert bullets at the stage directly in front of me and I use both a separate expander die and an RCBS "Lockout" (I recommend this) die. Minus these you'd be placing bullets to your right and cases to your left. That said, get the case feeder, as acrashb points out, it is highly worthwhile on an AP.
I'd expect you'd have a similar scenario with the 650 but as I've never used one of these I can't say for sure.
If you go LNL; get the 10 pack of extra bushings as this is the cheapest way to buy them and you "will" use them in due course. Get the 3 pack of spare shell plate retaining springs too. These are cheap (and fragile) and though replacement isn't a regular necessity, when you're new to the press, you can easily f**k the one you have up,,,,
,, I gather .Thanks Mark, I appreciate the reply and the LNL advice. I do plan on eventually getting a case feeder, but as I'm just getting into shooting and reloading I have a lot of gear I'm trying to get quickly, so the case feeder is a little lower on the priority list.
Anyone with experience on the Dillon XL650 that can provide some insight on that model's setup?
