Please Remove

[Andy]

You asked: "Norinco SKS of M14", "mostly for deer hunting at medium ranges, and target shooting at a local firing range". My reading comprehension is pretty good, so I'll answer: "M14 (M305)".

You posed the question in Milsurps, but neither are Milsurp - they're copies. Here's my unsolicited advice: If you want a Milsurp, buy one. If you want an accurate hunting and target rifle, buy one. Your best hunting rifle will not be an unmodified milsurp, but you can get both in one, and there are many choices. The hands-down most accurate Milsurp I've ever shot (and I've shot many) is the Swiss K31. It remains available and quite inexpensive, and no gunsmith peep and scope mounts are available.

 

[t-star]

the ONLY reason the chinese m14 market exists in KANADA is that the LIEBERAL government saw fit to PROHIBIT the REAL m14 as imported from isreal- ask john one how many CONTAINERS he's got sitting in warehouses off shore - the manufacturer's numbers were something like a million or more- enough for the entire american armed forces PLUS SPARES at the time- that's an awful lot of guns-
personally, i would go for the 14 as most of the game around here( calgary) falls into the 250 yard plus catagory and i don't care for the "minimalist " loading of the 7.62x39- nor do i shoot deer with a 223 for the same reason
plus it uses an odd sized bullet compared to my 308's

 

[lejarretnoir]

this is another MISCONCEPTION- the H&R machinery went to TIAWAN/formosa/ NATIONALIST CHINA, NOT the peoples republic- the chinese rifles we get are REVERSE ENGINEERED copied from m14TRWS, which were dropped/lost by us forces and arvn;
i guess it comes from the fact when you mention china now, most folks don't realize there's TWO chinas, as only ONE IS A THREAT

Lots of shouting going on here, why?
OK, true it's Taiwan, but the Taiwanese people are originally Chinese who rebelled and were driven off the mainland. Now the Chinese have been making them for a long time. The early ones had soft bolt and action problems, but the later receivers have been sought out by the Americans for custom builds. It's still the ongoing history of the M14 whether you approve of it or not. The Chinese M14 in Canada has become historic along with the SKS which also bought the Russian machinery and so on. I agree with Andy, that the M14's are copies, not military surplus. Semi-auto only is just a sporting version of the real deal.

I could say more, but I've already hijacked the thread and apologize to the OP, but the only milsurp available to you is the original Russian or military Chinese SKS. You most likely don't have Converted Auto status so owning a milsurp M14 is no. Modern M14's and commercial SKS's are not milsurps as they are still being made for civilian use.

 

[SevenDeuce]

Lots of shouting going on here, why?
OK, true it's Taiwan, but the Taiwanese people are originally Chinese who rebelled and were driven off the mainland. Now the Chinese have been making them for a long time. The early ones had soft bolt and action problems, but the later receivers have been sought out by the Americans for custom builds. It's still the ongoing history of the M14 whether you approve of it or not. The Chinese M14 in Canada has become historic along with the SKS which also bought the Russian machinery and so on. I agree with Andy, that the M14's are copies, not military surplus. Semi-auto only is just a sporting version of the real deal.

I could say more, but I've already hijacked the thread and apologize to the OP, but the only milsurp available to you is the original Russian or military Chinese SKS. You most likely don't have Converted Auto status so owning a milsurp M14 is no. Modern M14's and commercial SKS's are not milsurps as they are still being made for civilian use.

I apologize if the thread was posted in the wrong section of the forum. Seeing as both are copies of Milsurp rifles, I thought it'd be appropriate. That being said the detailed history of these rifles were not my primary concern, I only wanted to gather information and opinions on their practicality and versatility.

 

[Andy]

I apologize if the thread was posted in the wrong section of the forum. Seeing as both are copies of Milsurp rifles, I thought it'd be appropriate. That being said the detailed history of these rifles were not my primary concern, I only wanted to gather information and opinions on their practicality and versatility.

It's the "right" place and probably the best as well - although "Hunting" is another spot where it would have fit.

 

[Dakk]

You posed the question in Milsurps, but neither are Milsurp - they're copies.

That's an interesting point Andy and something I hadn't really thought much about until you mentioned it. To be honest, I really don't have the knowledge to determine for myself whether the Chinese SKSs and M14s are true milsurps or not, but I don't think 'copies' and 'milsurps' are necessarily mutually exclusive. If a Chinese SKS was built for use by the military and then later taken out of military service, and I think some were (Sino Soviet for instance) it is 'military surplus', regardless of whether they copied the design from another manufacturer or developed it on their own.

I just learned recently that the US M1917 is essentially a 'copy' of the British P14; with some changes. But both are still milsurps.

 

[cbabes]

One of my M14s that I use for hunting has the Ultimak scout mount and a Vortex Sparc red dot. It is a pleasure to go hunting with! Everyone who has shot it loves it. Everyone has there reasons for owning certain firearms. Some people just own them for "training". To each their own but I enjoy having fun and just shooting different kinds of guns. Either the M14 or SKS offer a lot of fun to their owner.

 

[smellie]

Oh, there's no problem having this thread here.

Both rifles are milsurp types..... or pretty close. The lines do get blurred from time to time.

I have a beautiful Lee-Enfield sporter, built about 1920, with a 30.2" barrel. It is a sporting rifle. Only problem is that it ALSO has military markings and Government ownership markings from the 1890s. Technically, it ceased to be a milsurp (true Military Surplus) rifle when it was converted in a FACTORY to a Sporter..... but where else CAN we put the poor thing?

Besides, lots of us like to yell at each other from time to time and this is a good excuse.

If it were me, friend, (and believe me, I DO understand about limited budgets!) I would try for $100 a month and opt for: (in order)
1. Lee-Enfield for longer ranges (May)
2. Loading equipment for .303 and 7.62x39 (June)
3. Russian rebuilt SKS from War Reserve stocks (July/August)
4. case of ammo for the SKS (August/September)

Actually HAVING a shiny plastic (or grubby paper) $100 thingie stashed under the spare radiator cap for that Deusenberg you are saving up for could permit you to make Purchase Number 1 THIS MONTH (which is still April!!!!!) thus advancing the entire Program by 30 days. You will have a most respectable little arsenal -- WITH ammo and your own ammunition factory -- AND have had some fun shooting the things -- by the end of Summer.

Best of luck, friend.

No matter what you get, come back and let us know.

Besides, we need someone new to yell at: we don't listen any more when we yell at each other!!
.

 

[MiG25]

get a russian sks or mosin nagant.

 

[points]

Lots of good info so far on this thread from all sides of the issue. The subject of what's better is usually pretty subjective. I own several SKSs, Mosins and Enfields. I love them all. None better than the other as they all have very different attributes.
But, to answer one of your main questions, I would not consider the SKS for an all around hunter. It can serve that purpose but is limited in accurate range and oomph. If it was only deer at 150 yards then okay. You might however want to reach out a little further and harder some day.
Both SKS and M14 were designed as combat weapons, not hunters. They will do but with limits. Of all my milsurps I would use my Enfield to hunt with.
As an aside, it was mentioned earlier about Norenco copies whether they fit this section or not. They are copies of originals close enough that one would have a hard time telling them from the originals at a glance. One of my favorite Enfields is a Parker Hale. I would put it here as the entire mechanism is military.

 

[Cdn303]

I do agree with smellie, but I am surprised that no one has mentioned this, so here we go. The OP is looking for something semi auto that is fun to shoot and that will take deer and medium ranges. Everyone put your thinking caps on. What is a currently available, semi-auto rifle that uses a proven deer stopping round (and I am not talking about an M1A/M305/M14)






Ta-da

It is in line with the cost of a Norc 305, uses 7.62x54mmR, fun to shoot, totally reloadable when adjusted for hunting purposes, yet cheap to plink with, with surplus ammo. I do believe we have a potential winner.

 

[points]

I do agree with smellie, but I am surprised that no one has mentioned this, so here we go. The OP is looking for something semi auto that is fun to shoot and that will take deer and medium ranges. Everyone put your thinking caps on. What is a currently available, semi-auto rifle that uses a proven deer stopping round (and I am not talking about an M1A/M305/M14)






Ta-da

It is in line with the cost of a Norc 305, uses 7.62x54mmR, fun to shoot, totally reloadable when adjusted for hunting purposes, yet cheap to plink with, with surplus ammo. I do believe we have a potential winner.

And it would turn a lot of heads at the lodge.

 

[smellie]

Now, why didn't I think of that one?????

Getting old.....

I STILL think a Lee-Enfield is an excellent choice for just so many reasons that there isn't room here to write them all down.

BUT........ WHAT does an SVT offer in the way of a semi-auto which is fun?
1. They are about 100 bucks cheaper than a Norc 305
2. They are LOUDDDDD!
3. Set the gas system correctly and they are reliable
4. They are a lot lighter than they LOOK
5. They are a ballistic twin to a .30-06, which means they exceed the .308 by a small margin
6. They ARE a 300-yard rifle for Deer
7. For reloading, the components are EXACTLY the same as for the .303": same primer, same powder (but a bit more of it), same bullets. Die set plus brass and you're ready to go.
8. They CAN be made accurate.
9. Surplus ammunition IS available reasonably, although the primers are getting old. For best results, get fresh Boxer cases and prime them, then pull-down the Russian ammo and reload it into the fresh-primed cases. Then bench-rest the rifle and see what she'll do.

Did I just sell myself a Tokarev?

Nope.

Already have a Finn capture.

Just forgot I had it!

HAS to be senility.... I don't drink!
.

 

[Tyockell18]

Get a russian sks while they are still cheap like they are now. Can't go wrong.

If you can get a nice rusky for $200.00 why buy a norc?.

 

[AdVanL]

I bought an SKS first because the price was definitly right. Then I bought a "pre-tuned" M14 from the M14doctor and haven't pulled the sks out of the safe since. Milsurp amo cases for the M14 are more than for the SKS, but worth it to me. ALSO I was pretty hellbent for an SVT, but I think the list of accessories for the M14 tipped the scale for me, although I still love the look of the SVT and will still probably end up with one in my safe eventualy (I might have a gun buying addiction as well).

In other words, go to a shop that has both, pick em both up, and then buy what EVER feels better for you. I don't really think you can wrong in either direction.
Keep in mind, I don't have plans to ever hunt with the sks, nor would I with an m14 out of the box.

 

[Ganderite]

Once the novelty of making noise wears off, you want to be able to hit the things you aim at.

The SKS is the least accurate option.

The #4 can be very accurate. It will appreciate in value, so does not cost anything. It is just a tax-free investment.

My Norc M14 is quite accurate.

A good compromise is the CZ858. Same ammo as the SKS, but shoots groups about half the size. Avery handy rifle for hunting.

 

[Phantom Power]

I got a nice Yugo M59 SKS way back when Marstar had a bunch. Was great fun for awhile but the novelty wore off and the lack of accuracy was a downer. Sold it and bought a nice No4mk2 Enfield and couldn't be happier with it.

Go for the Enfield.

 

[smellie]

Just to keep the historical record straight, Taiwan did not "rebel".

The Taiwan government is the legal government of the Republic of China, which was founded in 1911 by Dr. Sun Yat-Sen. It was this government, under the leadership of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-Shek, which fought against the Japanese as OUR ALLY during World War Two.

The Communists, under Glorious Comrade Mao Tse-tung (pronounced "mousy tongue" like a Cat?) were the ones who rebelled, taking Allied military aid during the War and even using some of it to fight the Japs (they used more fighting against their own "evil capitalist" government). Under Mao, the legal government was forced out of Mainland China in 1949 and retreated to Taiwan, which they proceeded to build into a most formidable military and economic power, proving to the world that China does not HAVE TO be a starving nation of semi-slaves.

Currently, the Communist Mainland government is run by Glorious Comrade Dung. THIS is the government that machine-guns students who ask for some of that democracy which their government promises, aborts millions of female babies every year, runs many factories on slave labour, takes convicts apart and sell their organs while they are still alive, steal every idea which isn't nailed down and most of them that are patented anywhere else, manipulates the world's money markets and metals markets mercilessly, supports murderous Islamic regimes all over the globe...... and hates our guts and says so, right out loud. This is the Government that the USA under Nixon CUDDLED UP TO and Canada legally recognised under fellow-Communist Trudeau, nearly 10 years before the USA did the same thing......... thus betraying the Republic of China (on Taiwan), our sworn and signed ALLY.

With "friends" such as Taiwan has, who the heck needs enemies?

I have no hesitation whatever buying Taiwan goods and I do wish they would make us a batch of GOOD semi-auto M-14s.

But I buy as little as possible from the Mainland.

This is not some anti-commie nut stuff; it is historical truth. Check it out for yourself.
.

 

[SevenDeuce]

Once the novelty of making noise wears off, you want to be able to hit the things you aim at.

The SKS is the least accurate option.

The #4 can be very accurate. It will appreciate in value, so does not cost anything. It is just a tax-free investment.

My Norc M14 is quite accurate.

A good compromise is the CZ858. Same ammo as the SKS, but shoots groups about half the size. Avery handy rifle for hunting.

The more I look into it, the more I become interested in the CZ 858. I've read and seen only good things about it.
It seems to be very reliable, and easy to maintain. From what I've seen, field strip doesn't seem to be very complicated, and requires no tools.
The main downer though is it's price, and availability. I've looked around a few sites, and haven't found one with the rifle in stock yet.

I haven't decided yet on which particular rifle I'd like to get for sure though. I still have a few weeks to wait before the purchase
of a rifle, so it'll give me time to gather more info, and to make my mind.

I read a lot about the fact that the M14 requires quite a bit of tuning to be consistently on target. I'll look into that as well.

Aside from that I thank every pitching in with your opinions, it's definitely helpful.

 

[RMXC51]

I do agree with smellie, but I am surprised that no one has mentioned this, so here we go. The OP is looking for something semi auto that is fun to shoot and that will take deer and medium ranges. Everyone put your thinking caps on. What is a currently available, semi-auto rifle that uses a proven deer stopping round (and I am not talking about an M1A/M305/M14)






Ta-da

It is in line with the cost of a Norc 305, uses 7.62x54mmR, fun to shoot, totally reloadable when adjusted for hunting purposes, yet cheap to plink with, with surplus ammo. I do believe we have a potential winner.

Bout time the SVT popped up.