Winchester Model 1895 'Винчестер мускета' - Winter War

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Winchester Model 1895 'Винчестер мускета' - Winter War

I thought about posting these in the Hunting and Sporting Firearms forum (but only momentarily). :rolleyes:

Here's something you don't see everyday...

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Yes its staged but who cares. That's a Imperial Russian Winchester Model 1895 musket in 7.62×54mm being used by the Finns in the Winter War. Note the (possible) Browning Hi Power.

And another...

tC9lu.jpg



Here's the Tsar's troops armed with the Винчестер мускета.
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Maybe if we ask really nice, Nyles will post pics of his. ;)

Thanks to Suomi for posting the link: ht tp://www.palasuomenhistoriaa.net/kuvat/sa/Kansio%201/index2.html
 
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Very nice! The homepage of the link I had posted is:

ht tp://www.palasuomenhistoriaa.net/en/?Everyday_life_at_war

There are many folders of interesting photographs within this site about Finnish war effort during the Winter and Continuation War.
 
When I visited the Nylands Brigade in Finland I saw a M1895 in their museum. Obviously no one had read the Williams Gunsight book, "How To Convert Military Rifles" which shows how a M1895 can be spiffed up with a monte-carlo stock, scope, etc.;)

Interestingly, the Nylands garrison was constructed by the Russians just prior to WW1 and many of the original bldgs remain, as do photos of the construction period. True to the traditions of Imperial Russia, one of the first buildings was the officer's mess with a hardwood ballroom floor and huge roccoco heaters. There is a picture of the troops living in tents during the winter while this building was being completed.

Clever people, the Finns. They grabbed their freedom in 1917 while the Russians were fully engaged in the revolution and " General Winter" helped to prevent any reaction from the Russians.
 
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I recall seeing these for sale at Williams Gunsight in Davison MI in the '60s. No doubt from the Finns. Most were really rough. Nyles' rifle is a superior specimen.
 
purple said:
Clever people, the Finns. They grabbed their freedom in 1917 while the Russians were fully engaged in the revolution and " General Winter" helped to prevent any reaction from the Russians.
Click to expand...

As a side note, after the collapse of the Russian Empire and the declaration of independance, Finland plunged into a civil war between the Reds and the Whites (January 27 to May 15, 1918). That resulted in 37,000 deaths out of a total population of 3 million at that time.

It is possible that rifles of this vintage could have been used in at least three major conflicts, being the Russian Revolution or Finnish Civil War, the Winter War and the Continuation War.
 
I've only seen two, including mine, in Canada in 10 years of collecting. As for value, I think I may have overpaid at $3000, but I figured I wouldn't find another that nice, if at all.
 
About twenty years ago I saw one come up at the Hayne's auction, it was a reblue and not a very good job of it. Can't remember what is sold for...I think my dad owned it for about three minutes during the auction. If I recall they auction was at the airgrounds...not the Creative arts building...after that location, yet before the hotel venue.
 
7,62 mm vintovka obr. 1895 in Finnish use

From the Jaeger Platoon website (http://www.jaegerplatoon.net)...

"When WW1 started in 1914 Russia didn't have even nearly enough rifles for its troops. Negotiations started in October of 1914 and lead month later to signing of contact about Russia buying 100,000 M/1895. These rifles were basically musket version of M/1895 using Russian 7.62-mm service ammo and tangent-type rear sight. Structural changes allowing using of same ammunition clips as used in Mosin-Nagant rifles were added after signing of first contract but before starting of manufacturing.

...100,000 rifles specified in the first contract were sent to Russia in between of June and November 1915. Second contact about 200,000 similar rifles was also signed and last of its rifles were sent to Russia in December of 1916. So, in between years 1915 - 1917 some 294,000 Winchester M/1895 rifles were shipped to Russia, where many of them ended up to Russian troops stationed in Finland.

...[and] ended up in hands of both sides fighting in Finnish Civil War. Winchester received reputation as elite status weapon in that war, unfortunately this lead into large amount of them being taken home as "war souvenirs" by their war-time users. Immediately after 1918 the remaining rifles were issued to artillery and mine-thrower crews,[mortar crews?] but this didn't last long as Mauser M/98a carbines replaced them in this use already in year 1919. Being rather scarce and having shortage of spare parts they were mostly warehoused until 1939. During this time large amount of M/1895 were given to non-military authorities and small amounts were also sold to civilians. During Winter War some were issued to artillery units and home-front troops. In summer of 1940 less than 1,700 remained. After this Winchester rifles were no longer used by Finnish military, last remaining 503 rifles were sold to Finnish military personnel in 1950."
 
Nyles said:
I've only seen two, including mine, in Canada in 10 years of collecting. As for value, I think I may have overpaid at $3000, but I figured I wouldn't find another that nice, if at all.
Click to expand...

If you go over to Gunboards and do a search for 'Winchester' or 'Winchester M1895' in the 'Collector's Forum - Mosin Nagant HQ' you will find a number of threads (some with pics) including ones with recent prices paid in the USA.

These show up more frequently down south. Nyles from what I read yours is in the high range. But again condition and completeness is everything. Seems that these get bubba'd more often down there.
 
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