Garand Buyers 101?

Potshot21

Potshot21

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Hello CGNers, I have to admit that I have recently been bitten by the M1 Garand bug. I've never really been into milsurps before or Garands for that matter. So basically I'm asking what a new buyer should be looking for in a Garand.

What's the difference between US, Danish, and Breda (Italian I think) manufacture?

Is one better quality than the other?

Is it better to get a post-war vintage or one from the early 40s?

What other things should I be looking for?

I'm not necessarily looking for a collector grade rifle, just a good shooter with good metal. The stock I would probably change if it was marked bad enough.

Thanks for your help!

Potshot21
 
Quality sounds to be similar. If you aren't looking for a US WWII rifle for its history I'd consider a Breda, Beretta or Danish issued US built rifle because of the lower price and most seem to be in very nice shape. As others have said about LE rifles, I believe that they only really hold the ammount of value you are willing to pay. A rifle that has been through battle will not be matching, only perhaps an un issued piece will. I think too many guys get caught up in that. It all depends on what you want to spend and what you want to do with it IMHO.

That's just what I believe though, I keep all my pieces as purchased, to preserve their own personal history.

For a shooter I think they are the same as any other semi. Sound operation, nice bore. Solid stock and checks out safety wise and good to go.

I believe all parts are interchangeable between manufacturers. I believe the Italian built rifles sights are graduated in meters vs yards though? Someone else will know for sure, I'm no expert.
 
What's the difference between US, Danish, and Breda (Italian I think) manufacture?

As far as functionality and quality, not all that much. Originally, M1 Garands were manufactured by Springfield Armory and Winchester Repeating Arms for the US Army during WWII. During the war these were the only manufacturers, however, following WWII, two more US companies were given the contract to produce the rifle (Harrington Richardson and International Harvester). Rifles manufactured by those two companies saw wide use during the Korean War. In addition to the four American companies contracted to manufacture the rifles, two Italian ones were also given the contract (Breda and Beretta). Only real difference is that Springfield Armory and Winchester were the original wartime manufacturers (SA continued on after WWII and Winchester didn't). Danish Garands are American or Italian Garands that were given to the Danes for service in their armed forces after WWII ended. Generally these Garands went through arsenal programs where they were reparkerized and re-outfitted with Danish VAR barrels and stocks (because the wartime ones were beat up). Parts from all six manufacturers fit together without any problems so you generally see a combination of Italian, American and Danish parts on the Danish rifles.

Is one better quality than the other?

No they're all pretty well the same. As I mentioned above, all the parts are interchangeable. However, due to the fact that the rifle was used from 1936-57, post war adjustments were made to the later versions which made them more user friendly (ie. lock bar sights got replaced with a more user friendly rear sight). Also, post war stuff is generally in better overall condition than WWII stuff (because it was used less) so they make better shooters.

Is it better to get a post-war vintage or one from the early 40s?

If you're looking for historical authenticity and or max collector value, the wartime variants are generally more sought after....but the post war ones are still pretty collectable too if their parts match.

If you'd like a shooter then I'd recommend a post war rebuild. They don't have the same collector's value but they're more suitable for shooting. For example, most WWII barrels are shot out by now while the post war/ Danish VAR barrels are still very serviceable/accurate.

What other things should I be looking for?

If you're looking for a collector grade variant you'll need to purchase a few books so that you have an idea which parts are "correct" to your rifle. If you've just got a mixmaster shooter then you don't need to worry about any of that. I'd just recommend that you go through the normal procedures when purchasing a rifle, checking it for rust/pitting, checking the barrel condition etc.

Also, in regards to price.... a nice shooter with good metal and wood will run about $1000. The collector's pieces go for about $1500+ so it really depends what you're looking for.
 
There is a lot of fact and opinion about Garands right here on this forum. Do a search for "garand" and you will find some 150 threads with info about these rifles. Most of your questions have been addressed several times in one way or another. This will furnish you with a good primer/starter kit of info.
 
Maybe a dumb question, but where can we even buy these in the first place?

M1 Garand is what got me interested in shooting to begin with but I have never seen one for sale at any store in Canada.
 
Fallout said:
Maybe a dumb question, but where can we even buy these in the first place?

M1 Garand is what got me interested in shooting to begin with but I have never seen one for sale at any store in Canada.
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The EE, basically. I'd love to be able to buy some from a retailer, but so far no joy.
 
Pocketfisherman said:
Bitten by the Garand bug...that was how I started...they are the Lays chips of serivce rifles...one will never be enough.:D
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God, Just got my first one this week, already want another.

Fallout said:
Maybe a dumb question, but where can we even buy these in the first place?

M1 Garand is what got me interested in shooting to begin with but I have never seen one for sale at any store in Canada.
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the odd store may bring them in on consignment or on trade, but generally I think they go VERY VERY quick.

Git your $ in hand, emt ready, and watch the EE.

Reasonably priced ones rarely appear,and last even shorter.
You may have to pay a little more than the standard going rate for them, depending on condition, etc.
 
Also if your not into reloading, it might be something to think about. These rifles are very hungry, (Nothing to blow through a bandolier in 10 minutes) and you can also reload to M2 ball spec aswell. Which is alot easier on the rifle, then the store bought 30 06 which is usaully a heavy bullet and slow powder
 
cornbinder49 said:
Also if your not into reloading, it might be something to think about. These rifles are very hungry, (Nothing to blow through a bandolier in 10 minutes) and you can also reload to M2 ball spec aswell. Which is alot easier on the rifle, then the store bought 30 06 which is usaully a heavy bullet and slow powder
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Or, if you are looking for a "shooter" talk to a really nice member here who sells adjustable/tunable gas blocks..

varget, h4895, imr4064 seem to be real popular powders.
 
Varget is accurate in the .30-06, but a bit too slow burning for the Garand gas system. It's all about generating the correct pressure pulse at the gas port to cycle the action w/o any possibility of damaging the op rod.

For reloading an M1 stick to any of IMR4064, IMR4895, or H4895 over 150-168gr bullets. FL re-size, keep cases trimmed below max, seat primers below flush with the casehead, limit brass use to 5 reloading/firing cycles and you are good to go. The 3 propellants mentioned are all capable of fine accuracy with a slight nod to IMR4064.
 
purple said:
Varget is accurate in the .30-06, but a bit too slow burning for the Garand gas system. It's all about generating the correct pressure pulse at the gas port to cycle the action w/o any possibility of damaging the op rod.

For reloading an M1 stick to any of IMR4064, IMR4895, or H4895 over 150-168gr bullets. FL re-size, keep cases trimmed below max, seat primers below flush with the casehead, limit brass use to 5 reloading/firing cycles and you are good to go. The 3 propellants mentioned are all capable of fine accuracy with a slight nod to IMR4064.
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Hmmm, my hornady book suggests varget but not imr4064 for 150-155 grain. Going to ignore that little section, as just about everything I've read says 4064.
 
Some reloading manuals contain caveats about propellant selection when reloading for the Garand. Others don't. Both the Lyman and Sierra manuals recommend IMR4064/IMR4895 (Lyman also mentions bullets in the 150-168gr range) for the Garand. H4895 is a near twin of IMR4895, so there is no problem with it.

The Garand action is massively strong and can handle very heavy chamber pressures w/o failure. Propellant selection for this rifle is all about generating the correct pressure pulse at the gas port though, and 4064/4895 do exactly that. As a bonus they provide excellent accuracy.

There are many other excellent propellants for the .30-06 in a bolt rifle, like Varget, W760, IMR4320, IMR4350, and H4831, but these are all too slow burning for use in a Garand. If you use them in a Garand there is a possibility that the op rod will be damaged, a $150 replacement cost these days.

Some folk use one of the adjustable gas plugs to use other propellants or commercial ammo in a Garand, but firing several thousand reloads with IMR4064 and IMR4895 in Garands tells me that this is the better way to go. Besides, IMR4895 was the MILSPEC propellant used in a gazzilion rounds of military ammo for the Garand.
 
purple said:
Some reloading manuals contain caveats about propellant selection when reloading for the Garand. Others don't. Both the Lyman and Sierra manuals recommend IMR4064/IMR4895 (Lyman also mentions bullets in the 150-168gr range) for the Garand. H4895 is a near twin of IMR4895, so there is no problem with it.

The Garand action is massively strong and can handle very heavy chamber pressures w/o failure. Propellant selection for this rifle is all about generating the correct pressure pulse at the gas port though, and 4064/4895 do exactly that. As a bonus they provide excellent accuracy.

There are many other excellent propellants for the .30-06 in a bolt rifle, like Varget, W760, IMR4320, IMR4350, and H4831, but these are all too slow burning for use in a Garand. If you use them in a Garand there is a possibility that the op rod will be damaged, a $150 replacement cost these days.

Some folk use one of the adjustable gas plugs to use other propellants or commercial ammo in a Garand, but firing several thousand reloads with IMR4064 and IMR4895 in Garands tells me that this is the better way to go. Besides, IMR4895 was the MILSPEC propellant used in a gazzilion rounds of military ammo for the Garand.
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Purple.
I bow to your garand knowledge.

The gas plug seems like a good idea to get the best of both worlds.
 
flying pig said:
Idk I kinda think the plug is like putting lipstick on a pig. Why change something that has worked for 75 years?
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^ this.

When you stray from the meat and potatoes of hunting firearms and get into milsurp, target and tactical rifles, you'll realize in a hurry that the ammo shelf at the local gun shop usually won't cut it for quality/quantity in these fine rifles. It would be a shame to drop 180gr SPs in a Garand since they "were on sale" and "that's all they had"!

Get into reloading, if you're not already, and try to replicate something close to the original M2 ball to take advantage of the superb Garand sights. A healthy supply of IMR 4064 and 4895 is all you need for the Garand, M1903, M1917, P-14, No4, SMLE, M-14, and the list goes on and on...

Here's a primer recipe for the M2 ball: http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellq.htm#duplicate
 
Yup, If a person wanted to stick to one propellant for reloading the more common MILSURP rounds, then IMR4064 or IMR4895 will work well for all of the .30-06, 7.62NATO/.308, .303 Brit, 7.62 x 54, 7x57, 8x57, 6.5x55 and 5.56.

The first one I ever used was IMR4064 and I think I've burned a few pails full of it and IMR4895 over the years. Good idea to buy them in the 8lb jugs if you are going to do some serious shooting.
 
FYGI (For Youse Guys's Information), IMR-4895 was DESIGNED for the Garand rifle and all American WW2 .30-06 ammunition was loaded with it. It is STILL the specified powder for American .30-06 ammunition.

The BULLET was a 152-grain FMJ pointed bullet (very similar to the Hornady, Speer or Sierra 150s) and they are still being manufactured.

CHARGE for the M-2 Ball load was 48 to 50 grains of IMR-4895, depending on casings and lot number of the powder. Specified MV was 2800 ft/sec.

The M-1 Ball loading used the 173-grain BTFMJ bullet and the AP, T and so forth bullets all were a bit lighter. You can substitute a 168 for just about any of them, again using IMR-4895.

Many Garands (including mine, a 1953 Springfield) really like the BT bullets for long-range shooting, but the flatbase 152 or one of its substitutes is just fine for anything under 500. Cheaper, too. The improved BC of the BT bullets really doesn't manifest itself until after 500.

Hope this helps.
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Its a crying shame that im going to have to sell my garand as soon as im done test firing it. Spent 3 months piecing it together only to have to sell it, FML. Oh well Im sure somebody will enjoy it.
 
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