Milsurp shooting day, let's do a brainstorm

bobfortier

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Hi all

I am checking to organize a milsurp only shooting day at a range that has 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards. Here is what I had in mind for the day, let me know if you have other ideas.

1. Shooting at 300 yards to get in the mood (2 sighter and 10 rounds)
2. Shooting at 600 yards (2 sighter and 10 rounds)
3. Match at 600 yards (2 sighter and 15 rounds)
4. For those with bolt actions and straight pull, a Mad-Minute at 300 yards

Any other activity to propose ?

All of this will be done with "as issued" rifle, there will probably be 2 groups for the match, the sniper with original scope, and the iron sight guys.

I recently shot at 600 with my scoped Lee Enfield, but after the day I put it back in her nice clothing, and now that I know she shoots well, I want to try it the good old way.

Before

Axis019007.jpg


And back to normal (I know, the sling is not installed properly)

TirLongueDistance004003.jpg
 
Thetford Mines, Quebec????

A BIT much of a drive from here, although it would be a LOT of fun.

Good shooting!

Hope you fill the range!
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How about one in Manitoba sometime. There was a good milsurp match at Wolverine a while ago maybe we can convince them to host another one.
 
I have organized a lot of milsurp shoots. In my expereince:

10 shots at a distance is not enough, and two sighters is not nearly enough.

I suggest unlimited sighters for 5 minutes, and then 10 on score. Then shoot a snap match at the same distance and then a mover at that distance.

If possible, i suggest starting at 100 and then moving to 200 and 300. Many shooters of milsurps would be lucky to get on paper at 500, which would spoil their day.
 
I have organized a lot of milsurp shoots. In my expereince:

10 shots at a distance is not enough, and two sighters is not nearly enough.

I suggest unlimited sighters for 5 minutes, and then 10 on score. Then shoot a snap match at the same distance and then a mover at that distance.

If possible, i suggest starting at 100 and then moving to 200 and 300. Many shooters of milsurps would be lucky to get on paper at 500, which would spoil their day.

Good idea about the sighters for 5 minutes, and do closer distance. Can you explain to me what is a "snap match" and the "mover" ?

Thanks
 
"Can you explain to me what is a "snap match" and the "mover" ?"

A target is mounted on a hand held stick that is held up above the bunker. A snap match is 10 exposures of about 3 seconds each. After the shots are fired the target is displayed with red spotters in the bullet holes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mh_JINPXH4


In the mover, the marker raises the target and walks about 10 feet. 1 shot per exposure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5gh1WRnr8I


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoMvx3nI8uo
 
The movers are a neat idea but not many non military ranges have the needed safety trenches.

You had me until the mention of the 300 yard targets. Hell I can't SEE a man size target to aim at with any degree of certainty at all at 300..... How about a handicap for those of us with less than ideal vision? :D At least give us a bright yellow or orange target... :D
 
If possible, i suggest starting at 100 and then moving to 200 and 300. Many shooters of milsurps would be lucky to get on paper at 500, which would spoil their day.

^ this is the first thing I thought when I read the original post! If you want to attract casual milsurp shooters (casual = more!), I wouldn't even go beyond 200. You can have a lot of fun at 100 and 200 with deliberate, rapid and snap matches. Throw-in a "mad minute" while you're at it because the smell of powder = victory!!!:D

"deliberate" = slow fire for accuarcy (i.e. 10 shots total into one target over 3 minutes, etc.)
"rapid" = simulates being attacked on mass, 10 shots total into two side-by-side targets (5 in each) in 1 minute or less (but best to use 1 min with bolt rifles)
"snap" = simulates defending against an advance to contact, 1 shot per exposure of 3 seconds, or two shots in 5 seconds, use a whistle to commence and cease fire for each exposure, for a total of 10 shots
"mad minute" = as many shots on 1 target in 1 minute as you can!
 
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Here is the info sheet for the ORA Vintage Rifle shoot. You are welcome to use any ideas you think useful.

Our first Vintage shoot this year is at Winona (Grimsby, near Hamilton) on may 27th. All CGNrs are welcome. Send me a PM for more info.


Bring out a rifle or two and do some shooting. Remember that we shoot the 100 yard stage from the standing position, so a 20X target scope would not be a good choice. At 100. It would work fine at 200 and 300, where all shooting is prone.

Please don’t let the program intimidate you. The Range Officer will explain each step as we progress through the program. Just make sure you bring a rifle(s), enough matching ammo and ear protection.

As usual, we will have a fine selection of $6 wine as prizes….

Here is an explanation of what we do and how we do it, for those of you who have not shot this event before.

First, it is not so much a competition as it is an opportunity to dig out some rifles to play with. This might be your hunting rifle, a collectible you have not shot before, or your service rifle.

We will start at 100 yards and then move back. This is a course of fire that allows us to zero the rifles at each distance and then shoot carefully aimed shots (10 shots in 5 minutes), then a “sanp” target (10 exposures of about 3 seconds each), with time toreload between exposures if you need to and then a “mover” where the target is shot once as it walks about 10 feet (10 exposures).

Prone shooting can use a rest, so long as the rifle rests on a hand, with the back of the hand on the rest. (I rest my hand on an ammo can.)

DSCN3817.jpg


Before each deliberate match you will have 5 minutes of sighting shots. The target will be pulled and a red spotter added for each new hole. For each match you will fire a string of 10 shots. After the shoot the target will be displayed with a red plastic spotting disk in each bullet hole, so you can see where your scoring hits were.

All shooting will be on the fig. 11 target. The back of his wrist is the bull’s-eye. For the deliberate shoot, it is scored 5 – 4 – 3 - 2. For the Snap and Mover, it is scored 5 & 4. The first 2 rings are the 5.

DSCN3803.jpg


100 yards

Deliberate from the standing position on the 4 foot target. 5 minutes sighting shots for zero. You can shoot the sighting shots prone, to help get a good zero. The match is shot standing, 10 shots in up to 5 minutes. After you have fired your ten shots, the marker will display it to you with the red spotter in each bullet hole, so you will know where the rifle was hitting.

10 shots Standing Snap. 2 sighting shots. A red spotter in each bullet hole will tell you where you hit. The match is 10 exposures of 3 seconds each. 1 shot per exposure. Time to reload for every shot, if you want.

10 shots Standing at Moving target. One sighter in each direction. (Our experience is that the target does not require any lead at 100 yards to hit it.) The target will walk about 10 feet. One shot per exposure. Time to reload for each shot.


200 yards & 300 yards. Same program as 100, except all shooting from prone position. You can rest the back of your hand on an improvised rest. E.g. ammo can, kit bag, lunch box.


Ammo required 120 minimum (more if you take a lot of practice shots)

Note: This is a lot of shooting. You do not have to use the same rifle at each distance or for all stages. You could, for example, shoot a different rifle for each distance. For the Snap and Mover there is plenty of time to re-load the rifle between exposures. I have shot it with a single shot rifle.

Squadding: Shooters will be assigned 4 per target. Two will shoot while 2 go to the butts to mark targets and keep score. After shooting the shooters will go to the butts to take over marking duties while the markers comes out of the butts to shoot. After both relays have had their turn shooting, we will move back to the next distance and repeat the procedure.

With two shooters on the firing point, taking turns shooting the 3 matches it is easy to shoot with your buddy, to share rifles or to shoot with your wife or child.

Marking: Marking the targets will be more interesting because you will know whose target you are looking at. After you have fired 10 shots the markers in the butts will display the target with red spotting disks and then will record the score value on a score sheet in the butts. For this reason it is important that the markers: 1) Have a pen. 2) Know who is shooting on their target. 3) Know who is shooting first.

Shooting issues:

When I shoot a scoped rifle, I sight it in at 100 yards to shoot about 2 inches high. It is easy to aim a bit low at 100. Then at 200 I just aim at the middle and at 300 I aim about 3 inches high.

An optic is handy to get a good idea of where the red spotters are. A telescopic sight solves this. Or a pair of binoculars or a spotting scope.



Equipment List:
• 1 rifle (at least). You can bring 3 and shoot a different one at each distance.
• 120 rounds of ammo (minimum)
• Optics to see the target spotters (spotting scope, binoculars or the telescopic sight on the rifle)
• Mat or ground sheet to lay on, if the mounds are wet. If you don’t have one, a 3x6 piece of carpet sold at Crappy Tire or Walmart works very well.
• Something to rest the rifle on when prone. Could be an ammo can, tool kit, block of wood or your shooting bag. But not a real shooting rest. The rule is you can use an “improvised “rest. A 40 pound cast iron benchrest is hardly “improvised”. You shoot in the normal prone position with the back of your front hand resting on something.
• A hard hat, if you have one. We are required to wear them when marking targets and we are short.
• Try to bring a buddy to shoot with. It is more fun marking targets if you know the guy shooting. Bring your wife of kid. You will be able to shoot together.
• Pen.
• Hat, sunglasses, ear muffs.
• Pack a lunch or plan on Harvey’s or Swiss Chalet
• Entry fee. $20 for ORA members, $40 for non-members.
 
The first thing you need to do is define a qualifying "Milsurp". For example, that scoped LE of yours would not qualify for any Milsurp match of what I'm aware. This is important, as potential participants will try to steal a mile of advantage, one inch at a time, and before long, you'll have Savage F Class rigs showing up.

The way we accomodated anything that might be brought was by having two categories: "Military"; and "Open". They shoot the same course of fire, but are scored separately.
 
Nobody has bothered to mention this, so I shall open my fat mouth and risk Everlasting Opprobrium.

STENCOLLECTOR knows a great deal about putting on military-style matches, although the ones at Shilo often were closer to what the Svedes call "Field Shooting": mixed targets, mixed sizes, rolling ground, side-winds gusting away madly, distances out to 1100, targets hiding behind bushes (at 540 metres in a shoot advertised as 400 yards!!!), range set up just before the shoot, at least one rule changed at the last minute so that nobody could practise for it..... and no match EVER called for weather.

They were "interesting" shoots, to say the least, real tests of men, ammo and rifles. I would like to do a couple more, even if people do laugh at the Old Fart who shows up with the antiques.

Good prizes, too. You got trophies or paper certificates for the shooting, but you also got a draw ticket. Tickets were drawn after the shoot and, if your number was drawn, you got to pick any prize of the table. Some of those prizes were worth serious bucks, but all I ever won was a CFB Shilo beer mug which my mother confiscated for a pencil-holder.

Just GREAT shoots!!!!!
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Yeah would love to come out for one of those but doesn't Stencollector set it up as four person teams and everyone needs to be on the same 'team' (same period uniforms). I'd love to bring out the Finns but seems folks like to dress up as Yankees and shoot Garands and M1's or Canucks with their LEs or Herr Heer truppens with K98Ks.

Last time there was partisans though wasn't there (anything goes just about)?
 
There have been single, 2-man, 3-man and 4-man team events.

Team costuming has nothing to do with the shooting. Generally, there will be a certificate or trophy or something for the best-costumed team, but that's all. My friend Walter attends as the Paraguayan Home Guard (he has a cap), I attend dressed convincingly as an overweight late-middle-age CHF patient with a lot of problems from Polio. People talk to us in German because they think we are related to Santa Claus; Walter replies in Plattdeutsche or Russki, I just look really dumb (I am very good at that through long experience).

Works.

Everybody gets along.

It's all about having fun.

I am planning a very special shoot, but it is still nearly 3 years off. That's good: I have to get 25 rifles ready for it, WITH ammo. Gonna be a LOT of work. Having trouble finding enough Chlorine containers and SRD jugs. Not sure where it will be held; if I have to rent a range, I will. It's that important to me.

But it's all for fun.
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