New to BP what rifle should I start with

coyote

coyote

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Hey guys for some reason I think I'd like to get in to shooting some type of muzzle loader but dont know what would be the best choice for starter rifle.

I've been doing some reading but am kind of confused as to what I should start with, I have seen the 54 cal hawkens the lyman greatplains and deerstalker .

Would it be better to go with a flintlock or cap and what about rate of twist,I think it would be really great to get a bear and deer with a muzzle loader.
Having the option to shoot round ball and sabots would be nice .

Any help would be great and where is a good place to shop for a black powder rifle :) .
 
I like the Hawkins style. Cap, definitely cap. I'm not a hunter but if I were, I would want a few quick follow up shots available for the Bear. We're not talking about 300-400 yd shots. With confidence 50-75yds would be max kill range I would think, I also think an angry wounded Bear can charge that distance well before I can reach for more powder and ball :)
Hunters feel free to correct me.
 
Flinter or cap whichever strikes your fancy for looks. Flints have a bit more of a learning curve but nothing to terrible.

Have a look and see if there are any clubs in your area, mabye you could meet up and look at some of the different guns.

If you want to hunt I would go with a .50 or .54 hawken to star with or mabye a penslyvannia long rifle. I have a long rifle from Traditions and love it, only problem I hve is the touch hole is a bit undersize so ignition can be spotty if you have a dull flint or dont clean between shots.

I pack a .50 hawken flinter and a .50 penslyvannia rifle flinter if im hunting bear. They arent to heavy and I dont mind the extra weight. I can fire and reload pretty fast but not as fast as having a second gun like jerimiah johnson haha :D

McLean
 
I just checked out wholesale sports and they seem to have everything I need to start .
The lyman deerstalker looks cool in 54cal ,shooting a 400 ish grain sabot on a black bear I doubt a second shot would be necessary.

For those of you that shoot BP what kind of speed can you get out of a 54 cal 350 or 400 gr sabot.

Maclean is the tradition line a decent rifle the price sure seems reasonable.
 
I own both the TC Hawken & Lyman GPR in .54. I cast my own for both.
The Lyman with its rifling twist (1:60) shoots 230gr round balls which will drop any black bear that crosses your path.
The TC shoots both patched round ball & conical with a 1:48 twist and right now she's zeroed @ 100yds with Lee 380gr REAL boolits. The Lee REAL (Rifling Engraved At Loading) really "THWACK" the paper at 100yds.
Harvester Muzzleloading makes the sabots you would require for .54 and .451-.452 bullets. I also use Pyrodex RS, Select, Goex FFG, FFFG powders.
"Traditons" bp guns are made in Spain. Lyman is from Italy. Both have different tolerances, Lyman being the higher. You get what you pay for ;) I'm not sure if Traditions makes a .54?
Good luck with your selection.
 
Yes lyman is higher, there guns feel more weighty and well made. I have boh a lyman and a traditions and love them both.

I dont think traditions makes a .54 although dont quote me on that.

McLean
 
You might find an older model Traditions or CVA in .54.
If you do end up with a .54 of whatever make let me know and I'll send you some lead balls and boolits to try out.
 
You guys are probably right about the tradition being a 50 rather than a 54 I looked at them rather quickly ,by the sounds of it I might start with the lyman .
 
I hunt with 50cal inlines. I do have a hawkens traditions in 50 as well but I don't like the #11 caps for stalking and once u have one blow sideways in your face its hard to leave an inline at home. As for hunting I use powerbelt bullets platinum line 338gr over 3x 50gr 777 pellets and I get about 1925fps. I haven't shot a bear yet with it but I've taken many whitetail and have yet to recover a bullet even with chest thru ass shots and vise versa. I've dumped a doe at 257 paces with this load. What ever you choose to hunt with practise and know your limits. To me deer and black bear broadside have a 8" vital zone. If I can't keep my biullets in a 4" circle at the given range I won't shoot
 
If you are wanting to get into blackpowder, like hawken longrifles and military guns. Dont get an inline, they arent real blackpowder guns and will not give you the same experience as touching of a percussion or especially a flinter. Also they arent particulary pretty, sorry about the rant I just really dislike inlines! :D

I would have no issues in taking a bear with my .50, im confident in its power plus I carry the second one as well.

I also have started loading with cartridges, they speed up the process considerably after figureing it out. I make them out of paper with a dowel and string.
 
Easy on bashing in-lines. They are black powder but are modern. The 209 primer in most is guaranteed to stay dry and therefore go off each time. This is something to consider if you are hunting in bad weather.

That said I think I would prefer to hunt with either my CVA Hawkins in 50 and/or my Pedersoli Frontier Carbine in 50. I would not be afraid to take a deer or bear out to 100 yards. Both are percussion and very reliable.

Just remember it takes longer for the round to exit the barrel. You have to stay on target and in shooting position longer. There is no recoil. Or very little.

And for pete's sake practice a lot before hand. It bothers me to see shooter's switch to BP and then not putting in enough practice to get good with their guns.

Welcome to the experience.
 
I should add too that I replaced my No.11's with a Musket cap (Top hat) for a hotter ignition. As for inlines, I have one as well, TC Endevour (.50 Pro-Hunter). My sidelocks get way more attention and range time. My Lyman GPR & Plains pistol are both kit builds as well.
 
Huntsman thanks for the offer on the lead balls and bullets , is a 54 cal hard to get or is the 50 cal much more popular and am I better off getting a 50.
Where did you get the kits for the lymans I am a hands on guy and wouldn,t mind that.

I figured I wanted the 54 cal for more knock down power hell maybe I should look for a brown bess they seem to be pretty big lol.

One thing I know for sure is I want a traditional rifle and not an inline , I already have way to many modern rifles and want to step back in time a bit and experience muzzle loaders for what they were.
 
.50 caliber is alot more mainstream, there are more guns in it and the bits are easier to find.

until you are well practiced in bp I wouldnt reccomend a brownbess for hunting as it costs alot to run with such a large amount of lead and powder each shot and also they are smoothbore so they are not as accurate off the bat as a rifled gun.

pedersoli also makes really nice guns but they are more expensive than the others mentioned.
 
coyote said:
Huntsman thanks for the offer on the lead balls and bullets , is a 54 cal hard to get or is the 50 cal much more popular and am I better off getting a 50.
Where did you get the kits for the lymans I am a hands on guy and wouldn,t mind that.

I figured I wanted the 54 cal for more knock down power hell maybe I should look for a brown bess they seem to be pretty big lol.

One thing I know for sure is I want a traditional rifle and not an inline , I already have way to many modern rifles and want to step back in time a bit and experience muzzle loaders for what they were.
Click to expand...

I bought my GPR kit from Hillfolk Musket Supplies in Senlac Sask and the Plains pistol kit from Wholesale Sports. W.S.S. has GPR kits as well.
.50 is much more popular and way easier to get bullets, balls, conicals etc...
The .50 will knock down any N.A. animal as much as a .54 would. The .54 round ball just hits harder and carries more energy to 100+ yds.
:)
 
In-lines been around for 400 years or so ..............not a new /modern system FYI.......Harold
 
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Mabye not the system it self but in the current production of these guns there is nothing classic nor traditional about them.

I take it you are refering to the hall rifle or mabye the ferguson ?

Mclean
 
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