308 win

I was involved in a moose kill at 425 yards (measured). I missed but my partner connected with 2 308 hits with Norma factory 180 SP.

The bullets were recovered. They were pristine. No expansion at all. Both went through the lungs.

From this I think 250 is a more reasonable max range for the caliber. Most shooters I have seen do not have 250 yard skills.
 
Well, for me, I tend to stalk up or call moose, coyotes and deer into a position less than 100 yards...just watch your wind and sun...that way you are certain that the shot is exactly where you want it...a .308 is a great round...I load mine with ttsx in 168 gr with some varget...that way it will shoot very similar in cold and hot weather without much variance...Again, I'd have to say it's not whether or not you could, if whether or not you should shoot at extended ranges...
 
150gr in .308 = 250-300yds as my comfort zone.

Honestly I wouldnt use the 180gr for moose in a .308 I have seen many knocked down by my father in 150gr winchester powerpoints over the years. No need for the 180, unless hunting in grizzly country.

If in big bear country, I would want something bigger than .308, maybe a .338
 
I sorta like Jeff cooper's advice, "If you can get closer - get closer, if you can get lower - get lower."

The long range limitation of the.308 cartridge, is determined by the maximum range that has enough retained velocity to allow the bullet to perform as it was designed to, usually 1700 - 1800 fps, although in general terms, the less expansion that occurs the deeper the bullet will penetrate its target.

The long range limitation of the rifle is the point at which it will no longer place the cold bore shot within a tolerance of 8" or within 4" of the intended point of impact.

The long range limitation of the hunter is determined by: local conditions of weather and terrain, the hunter's view of the target as in whether its in the clear or partially obscured, the target angle as in broadside or quartering, target angle as in if the target is at an elevated position relative to the hunter, whether the target is moving or stationary, and his own marksmanship limitations which allow him to place his bullet, under those conditions, within 4" of his intended point of impact, with the rifle he's using and the specific load he has in the chamber.

Just because you can do something at the range, from a bench, or prone, on a nice warm summer day, doesn't mean you can do it on a windy fall day in a snow squall while you're standing up to your knees in cold water and thinking about how warm the wood stove is instead of thinking about the mechanics of the shot you're trying to make. Under those conditions, your maximum range on a moose is perhaps 30 yards, based on the above criteria.
 
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Any 180gr bullet for .308 is IMO not the best choice. The case volume of the .308 Win is not enough to get the effective expansion (as stated by Ganderite as well as other accounts) with a 180gr at ranges exceeding 200. I realize you can get factory loads with 180gr bullets however I pull the reins at 168 for hunting purpouses. A 150gr will be more than adequate out to 300.
A 147gr jacketed boat tail is what our snipers used out to 600(or farther) but a 12lb head is'nt comparable to 800 to 1200lb moose.
Comfortably I would shoot a 168gr Nosler BT no farther than 300 yards with my Win. 88 with a plain jane Leupold VX1 3-9x40.
As stated above- Get closer, get lower ;) The .308 is a very ideal cartridge as is the 30-30 Win, but thats a whole other thread :)
 
Huntsman said:
Any 180gr bullet for .308 is IMO not the best choice. The case volume of the .308 Win is not enough to get the effective expansion (as stated by Ganderite as well as other accounts) with a 180gr at ranges exceeding 200. I realize you can get factory loads with 180gr bullets however I pull the reins at 168 for hunting purpouses. A 150gr will be more than adequate out to 300.
A 147gr jacketed boat tail is what our snipers used out to 600(or farther) but a 12lb head is'nt comparable to 800 to 1200lb moose.
Comfortably I would shoot a 168gr Nosler BT no farther than 300 yards with my Win. 88 with a plain jane Leupold VX1 3-9x40.
As stated above- Get closer, get lower ;) The .308 is a very ideal cartridge as is the 30-30 Win, but thats a whole other thread :)
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The interesting thing is that a 180 in a .308 makes 2600 fps, and 2600 fps produces a reasonably flat trajectory over normal hunting ranges, and sufficient velocity at the impact range across those ranges to ensure adequate expansion. Given two bullets of similar construction, one a 180 and the other a 150, the 180 will penetrate slightly better given similar placement on the same animal. I prefer deep penetration so almost always choose a heavier bullet.

The 215 gr .303 has a pretty good reputation as a moose killer, and a .308 has the same powder capacity, so really a 200 or a 220 would likewise work at 2300-2400 fps, but too many .308s have too slow a twist to stabilize them leaving the 180 as the heaviest suitable loading.
 
The 180gr just isn't my 1st choice in bullet wt for the .308.
I have some Sierra 180 match bullets that will group wonderfully at 100,200 and 300. Its been said that the 175gr is the ultimate wt for match LR shooting. 180gr does the job for most hunters that shoot factory ammo. IMO you can squeeze better performance out of a 308 ctg with lesser wt bullets. I had no problem dropping a 2x3 wt with a Federal 180gr outta my TC Encore, but that was a mere 30yd shot :D
Penetration or not the critters ended up in my freezer and grilled on my plate ;)
 
That is where the Savage 99 308 or 300 comes into play with 1 in 10 6 groove at 5-600 yards with a 165 SPBT hand rolled deadly a 300 yards the best weight next to 168 SPHT which is NOT for hunting.




Boomer said:
The interesting thing is that a 180 in a .308 makes 2600 fps, and 2600 fps produces a reasonably flat trajectory over normal hunting ranges, and sufficient velocity at the impact range across those ranges to ensure adequate expansion. Given two bullets of similar construction, one a 180 and the other a 150, the 180 will penetrate slightly better given similar placement on the same animal. I prefer deep penetration so almost always choose a heavier bullet.

The 215 gr .303 has a pretty good reputation as a moose killer, and a .308 has the same powder capacity, so really a 200 or a 220 would likewise work at 2300-2400 fps, but too many .308s have too slow a twist to stabilize them leaving the 180 as the heaviest suitable loading.
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Huntsman said:
The 180gr just isn't my 1st choice in bullet wt for the .308.
I have some Sierra 180 match bullets that will group wonderfully at 100,200 and 300. Its been said that the 175gr is the ultimate wt for match LR shooting. 180gr does the job for most hunters that shoot factory ammo. IMO you can squeeze better performance out of a 308 ctg with lesser wt bullets. I had no problem dropping a 2x3 wt with a Federal 180gr outta my TC Encore, but that was a mere 30yd shot :D
Penetration or not the critters ended up in my freezer and grilled on my plate ;)
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Actually I'm shooting 210 gr VLDs in my .308 target rifle, but the throat is long enough that I can seat a heavy VLD in the neck of the cartridge without the heal of the bullet extending past the shoulder and reducing powder volume. The combination of a long throat and a long barrel result in velocities that are not representative of a .308. When I lived down south, the 165 gr Hornady was my "go to" .30 caliber bullet for everything, but since living here I want the advantage I get from the heavies, although my .30 caliber hunting rifles are chambered for the .30/06.
 
Boomer, is your .308 target rifle a Tikka/Sako by chance?
My T-3 in 6.5 Swede was the same with a long throat, I could seat just in the neck. My next goal is heavy cast bullets for 3030 & 308. It should be interesting. I too have my eye on a 300 Savage but then again this is off topic. As for long range with the 308, the Berger bullit lineup is one I failed to mention. Most likely because I fancy the Nosler lineup a little more.
 
Most of my .308 hunting experience has been with a little Anschutz sporter. Its an easy little thing to carry and hit with so I stretched it out quite often.We also had piles of tags for many years.

With typical 150 grain hunting bullets it was fairly evident that the show was over around 350 yards. Not by coincidence that's where velocity dips down close to that 2000 mark.

I can easily see where hunters that draw their conclusions from under 200 yard kills are impressed with the .308. Take it to 500 and its less inspireing.

If you need to shoot around corners on a windy day its great for that.
 
A good fabrication bullet of 165 gr pushed @ 2800 fps in the 308 is an easy 400 metres proposition, in my hunting this combo have drop many moose fair and square, i would not try it further as loosing a nice moose is very bad compare to let it move out and call him back the next morning... JP.
 
Dogleg said:
I can only get 2750 fps out of my 30-06 with 165s.
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Reloading the 308 to 2800 fps is not that hard with R-15, 47 gr compressed, but surprisingly the Superformance 165 SST run over my Oehler an average of 2835 fps, they really put the zip in that round, pretty close to what they advertised at 2840 fps... JP.:)
 
blargon said:
My .308 Sako ran 165 IB's at 2750. 44gr IMR 4895, 20" bbl.
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Maybe I should pull the trigger harder?;) I poured the coal to my 24" Cooper until the bolt was getting sticky with all the classic 30-06 go-fast powders. A surpriseing amount of those wouldn't make close to 2700 fps with 165s. 150s scooted right along though.


If nothing else it adds to my appreciation of my .300 Wins, 3100 fps with 180s is just a fast idle.
 
I think the 308 is just about the perfect whitetail cartridge out to any sort of sane distance. I shot a Muledeer at 350 yards with my Kimber a few years ago using a 150 gr Btip with no difficulty.

I think the 308 is marginal for moose though, when I think moose I want penetration. I am a fan of Barnes bullets and they like to be driven fast.

If I was hunting moose with a 308, I would use a 150 gr TSX and probably not shoot much past 250-300. This is a 168 gr TSX pulled from a big bodied bull, blew out a rib, the heart and lungs, and broke the off shoulder and stopped under the skin. The distance was about 250 yards from a 300 win mag with muzzle velocity of just under 3200 fps

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This one came out of a zebra stallion my son shot, about 800 pounds, same kind of story except 30-06 launched at 2850.

kalaharioryx166.jpg


I my opinion, although both died quickly and went down right there, the expansion and performance was better from the 300, tough bullets work best when driven hard, the 308 is only capable of generating enough velocity to ensure moderate expansion as it slows down.
 
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