Wsm's
- Thread starter amber2010
- Start date
Simply because the advertising for the new cartridges says the belted cases are an inferior design. And if they say so, then it has to be true!
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
If you shoot a long bullet, be it a mono-metal or a heavy for caliber lead core bullet, the length that the shank extends below the shoulder, reduces the powder capacity proportionately. If you shoot lead core bullets of 180 grs or lighter, it will probably never be an issue. If we compare the .300 Winchester and .300 WSM, the fatter, shorter WSM holds more powder per inch length than the longer cartridge, so with an equal amount of bullet intrusion into the powder space, the WSM actually looses more capacity.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I don't care if a cartridge has a belt or not, and I own rifles chambered for both belted and non-belted cartridges. Both can feed reliably and produce good accuracy, but the belt does nothing to strengthen or to extend the life of a brass cartridge. Case head separation can occur with either. If the question is, "Does the belt make any difference to the performance of a modern bottle neck cartridge?" the answer is no, they are simply a marketing tool. H&H added the belt to the early magnum cartridges because their designers didn't believe the long sloping shoulder provided sufficient purchase to head space the cartridge in the chamber.
Belts are an important element of some straight wall cartridges like the .458 the .450 Marlin, and the .500 Wyoming Express. In the case of a straight wall rifle cartridge, in the absence of a belt the cartridge would have to be rimmed to provide headspace. But in the case of the .500 Wyoming, Freedom Arms belted the case so that the size of their revolver could be kept small; a rimmed .50 would require a much larger cylinder.
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Really? I had such great performance out of my .270 Winchester, just like many others, that I don't see any practical advantage for the wsm version. The regular will get 130gr TSX's going at almost 3200 fps (my chrono numbers) - the WSM is listed at 3260 max with 74gr of Magpro. The book shows 3211 fps with 59.5gr of RL19 for the .270 Win (I used RL22).
In the WSM 69gr of Magnum gives a book velocity of 3060fps with the 150gr TSX; the regular version is listed at 3000fps with 60.5gr of RL22.
With 110gr TSX the WSM gets 3576fps with 80gr of Magpro compared to 3524fps with 63.5gr of Hunter in the regular .270 Win.
So to me, in addition to the more expensive brass plus much reduced magazine capacity, it looks like you get to burn an extra 15-25% more powder for the same performance.
Edit - I listed max performance loads for each for comparative purposes.
The 270WSM will shoot the same bullet faster than the 270 Winchester, due to case capacity.
When you compare Winchester ammunition using the same bullet, the difference is about 200fps or more.
Same as the 30-06 will never be as fast as the 300WSM. Case capacity.
Whether you want the extra velocity is up to the individual.
When you compare Winchester ammunition using the same bullet, the difference is about 200fps or more.
Same as the 30-06 will never be as fast as the 300WSM. Case capacity.
Whether you want the extra velocity is up to the individual.
I've never owned a .270 WSM, but looking at the load data doesn't do much to support it. Why doesn't Barnes' data show the advantage? I know what you are saying about case capacity though (keep in mind too that the .270 Win is loaded to 65,000psi).
There are so many variables - are you using the same powder? The same bullets? What about barrel length, you need to factor that in too. Also consider that the same load in different rifles will give different velocity due to, as you say, differences in the rifle (barrel, chamber etc).
Same powder and bullets. I'd like to think its some superior design of the shape of the 300WSM cartridge.
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
There's no replacement for displacement. If you're getting more velocity out of a smaller case with the same powder and bullets, then you're likely running at higher pressure.
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Haha the salesman at the gun store tried sooo hard to sell my dad a 270wsm and he almost drank the kool aid. He called me up after going to Winchester's ballistics calculator online and started to explain to me why the 270wsm is the best cartridge ever made, claiming it to be super accurate and powerful out to 700 yards.
Once I told him it was $35.00 / box if you could find it and the mag capacity was 2 he just laughed. I then proceeded to explain to him that the cartridge burns barrels, wastes powder, and requires premium bullets to function properly on game and we were back to talking about which 308 rifle to buy.
Once I told him it was $35.00 / box if you could find it and the mag capacity was 2 he just laughed. I then proceeded to explain to him that the cartridge burns barrels, wastes powder, and requires premium bullets to function properly on game and we were back to talking about which 308 rifle to buy.
Most WSM have 3+1 capacity. Although 3 rounds should be sufficient for most hunting situations.
How many barrels have you burned out using a 270WSM?
You need more powder to create more velocity. If you want the velocity, it's not a waste.
You don't think a regular bullet from a 270WSM will kill an animal?
- Location
- AB foothills
It is a good thing that your father had an expert such as yourself to help him clear things up
It is a good thing that your father had an expert such as yourself to help him clear things up
Indeed!
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
+1
With velocity, powder capacity, barrel life, and magazine capacity being nearly identical between the .270WSM and the 7mm Rem Mag, if the .270WSM sucks, then I guess one of the best-selling and most successful cartridges of all time (the 7RM) is actually a dud! Who knew?!
I'm thinking a 150gr IL from the .270WSM will kill darn near anything you point it at...
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
????? - if intrusion by an equal amount, then the volume the bullet base cylinder displaces is identical regardless what it is encroaching upon - I think.
Yup!
Powder capacity is powder capacity, and volume is decreased by the same amount when a bullet is seated deeper, regardless of the shape of the cartridge. Smaller capacity cartridges are affected more by a bullet being seated deeper than larger capacity cartridges. The volume that an intruding bullet displaces has a larger marginal effect on the small cartridge.
The magazine and throat design make more a difference here than whether the cartridge is a standard Mag or a WSM...
