20 gauge for Home Defence???

Home defence you say..? It all depends on what type of home you're defending against...


A-frame/Mobile Homes/Pre-builts/& Bungalows - .410/20ga should be fine but they're dodgey though, so make your shot count. I go for the gas-meter 1st...

Cape Cods/Split-levels/Ranch-style/Log homes - minimum 16ga, heftier homes require bigger round. These guys mean business, 12ga wouildn't be considered overkill...

Houses 5000sq.ft +/Condos/Apt buildings - 12ga slugs might work, but the shear size & construction of these creatures requires something big... 12ga Gattling gun ?






:p
 
VLT79 said:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958

All kinds of load comparisons here but can anyone else spot the big problem with this ballistics testing?

The balistics gelatin simulates muscle tissue. How thick is the muscle covering the human skull and torso?

From a distance of 20 feet or less, nobody will walk away from a load of birdshot!!!
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Did you read the article or just look at the pictures? 10% ballistic gelatin accurately represents muscle, not bone, cartilage, clothing etc. The FBIs standard for acceptable penetration is 12", almost all birdshot loads fall short of that at very close range with no other structures to penetrate. It says in the article that they do not recommend birdshot, it rarely performs the way you would need it to. The buckshot loads perform impressively well, some passing 20" penetration and blowing the birshot out of the water. And its not like its expensive or hard to find. Its on shelves in every town, why cheap out with half-assed measures that could get you killed when you can have definitive power with little to no additional recoil? Doesnt make sense to me.
 
home defence is illegal unless your life is in danger, so we say a wolf broke into your house. a 20g federal and winchester 3/4oz slugs are doing the same velocity (1600fps) as a 2 3/4" 1oz 12g slug. for home defence bigger is usualy better since you dont want to give the wolf a chance to hurt you/your family. but a 20g will have more than enough power.
if you dont want to chance being underpowered, get youself a 10gauge, the size of the bore alone will scare the living crap out of a intruder.
 
supernova said:
Did you read the article or just look at the pictures? 10% ballistic gelatin accurately represents muscle, not bone, cartilage, clothing etc. The FBIs standard for acceptable penetration is 12", almost all birdshot loads fall short of that at very close range with no other structures to penetrate. It says in the article that they do not recommend birdshot, it rarely performs the way you would need it to. The buckshot loads perform impressively well, some passing 20" penetration and blowing the birshot out of the water. And its not like its expensive or hard to find. Its on shelves in every town, why cheap out with half-assed measures that could get you killed when you can have definitive power with little to no additional recoil? Doesnt make sense to me.
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And there lies the problem. Absolutely nowhere on the human body will you find 12" of muscle tissue covering vital organs. The chest as about 2" of muscle and bone then it's hollow cavity with jello soft lung tissue, arteries and the heart. The skull is 3/8" at best.

I had the displeasure of having to shoot a charging bear with a 7/8 load of 7.5s (handloads @ 1315fps from a 12ga with a mod. choke) at 17 feet. If it can drop a pissed off +280lbs black bear it can easily do for home defense.

Using birdshot vs slugs or buckshot has nothing to do with economics it's about not killing/injuring the others members of the household that may be in the adjacent rooms in the event of a pass thru or a complete miss.
 
VLT79 said:
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not?!!

In case you aren't...birdshot is actually the way to go with a shotgun when it comes to self defense in "across the room" situations. Shot sizes smaller than #6 will stop an intruder in his/her tracks. You will still get a complete pass thru of the majority of the shot/pellets but in the event it makes it thru the walls it is much less likely to harm your loved ones in the next room over compared to larger shot sizes, buckshot and slugs.

As for the legalities of using a firearm for self defense in Canada...a law enforcement officer once told me: "It's better to be alive and in jail than dead and 6 feet under...and make sure the intruder is dead...dead people can't testify in the event of a trial!!!"
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Being "cautious" :redface: , actually....:yingyang:...some people hear the word "shotgun" and proceed to believe that a sawed-off (or "cylinder choke" ;) ) 12 gauge with factory #8 birdshot [esp. in 2 3/4 shells] is a kind of "super death ray"....:(

These are usually the same people who have never thought to pattern their shotguns, either....:wave:....just a humble observation !

A slug or buckshot load in 20 gauge is nothing to sneeze at; for that matter, I happen to love putting #2 "rabbit shells" through a fully-choked 12-gauge....:D

But to discuss the "powers" of birdshot in a shotgun without mention of choke and shot-size is, as I hope we can agree, kinda missing a crucial part of the conversation !
 
Wife has to shoot it and load it so often she can do it while caring on an important conversation. She has to be able to do it without thinking about what she is doing.

This means number of range dates.

My wife cannot #### the hammers on my SxS.

A low recoil 12ga buckshot would be my suggestion.

Any gun is better than no gun. best gun is one she has mastered.
 
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VLT79 said:
And there lies the problem. Absolutely nowhere on the human body will you find 12" of muscle tissue covering vital organs. The chest as about 2" of muscle and bone then it's hollow cavity with jello soft lung tissue, arteries and the heart. The skull is 3/8" at best.

I had the displeasure of having to shoot a charging bear with a 7/8 load of 7.5s (handloads @ 1315fps from a 12ga with a mod. choke) at 17 feet. If it can drop a pissed off +280lbs black bear it can easily do for home defense.

Using birdshot vs slugs or buckshot has nothing to do with economics it's about not killing/injuring the others members of the household that may be in the adjacent rooms in the event of a pass thru or a complete miss.
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Yeah, what do the FBI know? Be sure to give them a call to explain where they went so wrong. They use ballistic gelatin for their testing procedures and consider 12" penetration to be the bare minumum for rapid incapacitation. This takes into account the other variables like clothing, skin, fat and bone that a bullet must penetrate before reaching the vitals. Accurately representing these additional medias for testing procedures would be very difficult and expensive. They know what theyre doing, their agents rely on this information. And as far as not injuring others, why shoot them? If you dont know how to use the gun properly then you shouldnt be wielding it. Buckshot will not spread very much at very close range so there is no reason you should have to worry about shooting others thru walls unless you cant shoot worth a damn.
 
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