RFB or XCR-M?

Claven2

Claven2

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OK, well I'm on a bit of a fundraising kick in the EE, but I'll soon be looking for a new .308 NR black rifle.

I think it will be either an RFB or XCR-M unless there are any other cool 7.62 non-restricted rifles out there I haven't thought of?

So what do you guys think? What are the pros and cons of both? I'd really like to hear from those who have at least fondled or fired both.

My suspicion is that the RFB handles better, is more compact, and is more ambidextrous (important as I'm a lefty), but I suspect the XCR-M has a better trigger, is more modular (takes AR grips, stock is changeable) and might be a bit more accurate than the RFB which has a lot of "stuff" hanging off the barrel.

Thoughts?
 
I dont have any experience with the XCR-M, but i fell in love with the RFB when I got to fire it at the range. I was also allowed to fire it on a second appearance to the range as well and it cemented my opinion on the RFB. It is a compact, reliable and accurate firearm. Many reviews claim it has one of the best bullpup triggers they have ever used and the accuracy has been claimed around 1-2 MOA, but several people on CGN have gotten under 1 MOA with mexican match/reloads/handloads. I think its a fantastic firearm and would recommend it to anyone.
 
Coincidentally I am having similar thoughts.....I REALLY REALLY like the idea of a full bore bullpup that is NOT registered....

I have been checking out some of the US Keltec owners forums and have a number of concerns, based on owner comments.

I'm not entirely convinced, based on the RFB design, that clearing a stoppage is straight forward or quick. I'm also curious about the effect of firing slightly uphill, is it possible that ejected cases could slip back into the receiver from the forward ejection chute?

Would like to hear from some users who have put a few rounds through the RFB under less than ideal conditions.

On the plus side I have managed to collect 14 Israeli issue metric FAL mags, so that part of the decision has already been made !!!
 
I hated my xcrm when i first got it, stock was not working, play between the upper and lower was so much i could use it as a rattle at a soccer match (yes i know a very heavy rattle). I sent it back to Wolverine and they exchanged the upper and fixed the stock (well put it back together the correct way) and i now love my xcrm.

I have only taken it to the outdoor range once, i shot 1.5-2 inch groups at 100m and 2.5 inch groups at 200m with 168gr hornady match reloads.

If your going to get xcrm i would try and get it local so you can check the play, i was very very upset at paying almost 3k for a rattle.
 
I currently own an RFB with NO complaints.

I would also like to add the XCR-M.

When shooting prone with bags fore and aft it appears it is quite capable of MOA.

Off-hand shooting could be a little trickier.

It would be out of place on wide open prairie but seems to be the ideal brush rifle.

I have several hundred rounds through mine so far and no malfunctions or failures.

I am using RRA polymer mags.
 
Wow dude!
That's are hard choice. Because I already have an L type, my choice might be the RFB. Where do they eject the casings on the RFB?
 
It's a tough call. But.. I would go with the RFB.

Here's why:

The RFB as everyone knows is extremely compact. It's the same length as a M4 with the stock collapsed. It's Tavor length only in a non restricted 308 rifle. The empties go out the front left in a manner similar to the FS2000. There are no worries with shooting upwards. You won't jam the empties and they can't go back into the action (think crab trap). Completely ambi. Ergonomics are decent although the mag release should be in the front of the mag well so you can do fast mag changes like the Tavor. The mag changes are slower. 18.5" barrel with heavier contour 1:11.25 twist. It's not a target rifle, but is fun and would be great for hunting.

The XCR-M. I would buy one of these if they came with 20" and 24" SS 1:11.25 twist match barrels. Along with proven accuracy. The size of the XCR-M is similar to an AR10. It's a fairly big rifle. Once you're at non restricted length you're out of the fast handling range. It's best purpose at that point would be as a target/hunting/DM rifle. But not with the version currently sold. Since the barrel isn't match grade, it's an off length and the twist rate is 1:10. This is the reason you get around the same accuracy as the RFB. Lots of AR aftermarket stuff for this rifle and the trigger can be better than the decent RFB trigger. The conventional design is also very familiar to most shooters and the ergonomic in terms of controls are better than the RFB.

The issue with both of these rifles are the actions. The RFB is a short stroke tilting block (SVT40, FNFAL, SKS , etc). Tried and true but also known for vertical stringing. You need to adjust the gas, have a heavier barrel (which the RFG and XCR-M have) and match the ammo to prevent stringing. The XCR-M is a hybrid using AK style bolt with a piston system. Neither lend themselves very well to extreme accuracy. Although both are tried and true. Tuning, matching ammo and top grade barrels will be required to get the best out of them. Even then 3/4 moa would probably be the very best these could be expected to do. An AR10 in comparison will shoot sub .5 moa easily with a good barrel and match ammo.

It's a tough choice on which one to get. There isn't a right or wrong answer to this. If they offer better barrels in longer lengths for the XCR-M then it wouldn't be a one or the other but which one do you buy first decision. :D
 
I love the RFB! I does take a little bit of time to get used to the controls and stop grabbing it by the mag when you pick it up!

The ejection is the best feature of the rifle. Ideal for left hand shooting, for re-loaders as the brass just drop at your feet and for the guy next to you at the range... Large scopes make the rifle balance awkwardly but with an Eotech on, the rifle is great in the hands... But I could use a small riser with the Eotech to get a better cheek-weld.

The Kydex cheek pad is a must for cold weather... Also, I have a tendency to touch the barrel with the supporting hand because I grab the rifle too far forward... Maybe a grip or a palm stop in conjunction with the screw-on rails would remedy that...

Chamber check, unloading and malfunction clearing (caused by badly pinned mag) are not as easy as with other conventional rifles but I guess it would become more natural with time...

I have not shot the XCR-M yet but it should be done this week!! I do like the feeling of the rifle and it is more conventional as far as the layout goes. A big scope fits the rifle nicely and there is plenty of rail on top to put backup sights plus rails everywhere for whatever else is needed...
 
Something else I forgot to mention. With the RFB get the $55 bottom rail. It's worth it. Also both the XCR and the RFB can use the AR quick release mounts for scopes.

With the RFB and the Burris quick release mount you will want to turn the quick release levers backwards and set it up so the charging handle comes back to the first lever when brought fully back. This way your scope mount won't interfer with the charging handle. Some use the mount backwards as well which seems to work well for them.

Also with the RFB, Tavor and many other modern rifles using a left side charging handle. The regular Eotech's might not be ideal. I find they are too wide at the base and interfere with the charging handles when placed where I want them. I actually prefer the quick release and bullseye reticle (copy of Eotech) M21 sights for these types of rifles. They work well with the CX4 storm as well. They were designed for the Tavor so they are slimmer and don't interfere with the charging handle. Even though I do overall prefer the Eotech these sights have advantages too, especially for the bullpups.

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I put the Eotech all the way to the front and it does not interfer too badly with the charging handle... But there it a longer charging handle available from KelTec that may solve any issue... The bottom rail is a nice accessory. I do not like the issue KelTec sling... Better get some new rail compatible sling points and a new sling...
 
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