Heavy bullets for M-14...just turn off gas port??

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RickR1100

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Ok, just consider this idea before dumping on me!

Say I suddenly decide to use my M-14 for a little bit of hunting, and choose some 180 grain factory loads...but have no interest or money to go purchase all the custom pistons and stuff normally required to make the '14 handle heavy loads and not bust itself up.

Now, if I'm willing to temporarily hunt with it as a "straight pull" instead of semi...couldn't I just turn off the gas port, using that little screw on the side, and not worry about piston velocity? Wouldn't that be safe and cost no extra pennies?

Alternatively, is there a simply "drop in" piston that bleeds off enough gases that the piston velocity would not beat up the gun? Say use the stock Norc one for normal weights like 140-158 grains, but use this other piston for 170-190 grains? Without having to buy a complete new gas block assembly?
 
As far as I know, no one makes aftermarket piston for the Norcs. The gas cylinder is slightly larger than USGI spec which is why the aftermarket pistons don't normally run well in them. Then again, that might actually work well for the heavier pills but you wouldn't really know, it's just conjecture on my part.

I was reading a thread the other day on the M14forum that dealt with firing M14 ntype rifles with the gas system turned off. I can't remember who it was who interjected but the rifle is not designed to be fired like that. The gas shut-off is for firing rifle grenades. I'll see if I can't dig up a link
 
Personally I'd just drill and tap your gas plug and buy a handful of allen head cap screws. Drill each one out with a number bit set, starting with one too large to cycle the specific load then reduce the size of the port until it cycles reliably. Same idea as Mccann. For lighter loads just swap in an undrilled screw
 
hmmmm....
No gas getting into the gas system, Single shot, pull back on op rod per shot of heavy boolit?

What's not to like or worry about? :cool:

Sounds workable to me.... Also sounds like one of my stories in the M14 Clinics with a large flat blade screw driver... :evil:

Cheers,
Barney
 
I'm going for my first moose hunt this season and this is what I plan to do.
My brother gave me a box of Federal 180's as a gift, interested to see how my rifle likes them.
 
Roughneck12 said:
I will be purchasing a M14 in the near future. Why can you not use 180 grain bullets in these rifles?
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Rifle was designed around the 147-155g bullets

the 168g bullet is at the top end of the weight to use

If you use 180g or heaver bullets the more you shoot the more likely you will bend the op rod or break some other part

You use the right tool for the job
 
just having some fun said:
Rifle was designed around the 147-155g bullets

the 168g bullet is at the top end of the weight to use

If you use 180g or heaver bullets the more you shoot the more likely you will bend the op rod or break some other part

You use the right tool for the job
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Is there documentation on this? Not that I dont trust oyu, I am just interested. I know the CF used 168 gr nroma match for the C3 parker hale - marked 308 actually, but I dont know the grain weight for regular old 762. as well, was the stuff htey used for the old FN C1 the same thing they put in the belts ofr the C6 762 GPMG?

Other thing I was curious about was powder. seems in pistols that when bullet weight goes up, power and podwer goes down. sdame for factory rifle ammo????
 
rosshimself said:
Is there documentation on this? Not that I dont trust oyu, I am just interested. I know the CF used 168 gr nroma match for the C3 parker hale - marked 308 actually, but I dont know the grain weight for regular old 762. as well, was the stuff htey used for the old FN C1 the same thing they put in the belts ofr the C6 762 GPMG?

Other thing I was curious about was powder. seems in pistols that when bullet weight goes up, power and podwer goes down. sdame for factory rifle ammo????
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Talk to a gunsmith about this, I did. I was told by 3 different people that after 20k shots you might might bend the op rod if you shoot 180g bullets. It was the original fully automatic m14 rifles that had 12k shots out of them with heavy bullets that were having issues, not your average Canadian 40 shots at the range kinda guy.

If you buy a box of 180g bullets, sight in with 12 rounds and then maybe shoot 8 of them in a hunting season you simply cannot hurt the rifle.

Now of course your Chinese manual says you should only use 7.62x51nato out of your gun, so do whatever really. I personally shoot 150g 308win from mine because it cycles best, kicks the least, and seems to be pretty accurate. The 165g bullets, no matter what amount of 4895, 4064, RL15, Varget, Ballc2, powder I use cycle the action correctly.
 
Before I found out this whole 180 grain = bad info, I shot 100 of them outta my bone stock 2009 Norinco... I am annoyed because I haven't been able to replicate the accuracy I was getting with the Remington PSP 180 gr bullets. For the amount I shoot it I might just ignore the warnings if I can't get the 165, 168, or 150 pills to be accurate.
 
Been shooting mine as a single shot for a while now, I find it slows me down and my shooting is better and of course the rounds last longer. Absolutely no problems at all. And of course I just flip the screw and have a Mad minute every now and then :))
 
Documentation?

Back in 1996 and 97, the USMC Shooting teams continued to hold on to the M14 Platform while the US Army AMTU trounced the USMC teams using totally tuned M16A2's. While the Marines sought to keep the M14's they used the 175 gr Sierra MK boolit and resulted with broken op rods (battering).

Wolff Springs from Brownells sells extra powered springs for this intended purpose but nobody has ever carried out the research. I just choose to play it safe. ;)

I competed with the 168's back in the day. Now I just love that Sierra 155 gr Palma boolit out of my M14's out past 600m. :D

Cheers,
Barney
 
Fenix.NZ said:
^^^ handy to know.. would be excellent for use with a suppressor ;)
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Holy crap! You just reminded me of something I read some 20 years ago!

Back in the Vietnam days, SOME of the snipers who were using the then new M-21 (accurized M-14, darn similar to National Match, but specific for sniping AFAIK, correct me you super-experts!), if they got issued the new suppressors, would actually turn off the gas port SPECIFICALLY to prevent the action from cycling, because that noise would potentially give away the sniper's position a split second after his shot. I'm assuming they'd wait a few minutes and then S L O W L Y #### the rifle...then maybe turn the gas back on in case they had to do an urgent E&E...

Wow. I used to read a lot about the Vietnam war.
 
Fenix.NZ said:
anyone ever closed the action on a spent case? did you have to 'kickstart' the rifle to get it open again and extract that case?

I did...

so im wondering if the same would happen with the gas system turned off?
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Your situation doesn't sound to me like it'd be "typical" or normal. I'm wondering if maybe when your case went back into chamber, it was maybe slightly bent or out of shape...and "jammed" or "friction fit" itself in the chamber?!

I say this because AFAIK, the NORMAL rifle casing, even after it's been fired, doesn't normally grip the chamber so tight you can't easily manually cycle the action. I mean, bolt-action rifles in normal operating have no trouble with extracting a fired case. Also, reloading guys who do so for the M-14 right in this forum often don't even resize the whole case, just the neck...and they report the M-14 will cycle just fine like that!
 
RickR1100 said:
Holy crap! You just reminded me of something I read some 20 years ago!

Back in the Vietnam days, SOME of the snipers who were using the then new M-21 (accurized M-14, darn similar to National Match, but specific for sniping AFAIK, correct me you super-experts!), if they got issued the new suppressors, would actually turn off the gas port SPECIFICALLY to prevent the action from cycling, because that noise would potentially give away the sniper's position a split second after his shot. I'm assuming they'd wait a few minutes and then S L O W L Y #### the rifle...then maybe turn the gas back on in case they had to do an urgent E&E...

Wow. I used to read a lot about the Vietnam war.
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bullet is still supersonic though, so would still make a hell of a noise. unless they managed to get some subsonic stuff..

i would of thought it more to do with backpressure or something like that.. nothing is worse than a face full of dirty gas when the action cycles
 
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