Starting to reload.

DARKSTANG said:
I'm thinking the Dillon 650 is the way to go. I realize a single stage would be easier to watch and not make mistakes, but I go through a lot of .223 and with a family of 4 kids, I don't get much time on my own. Let's face it, most of my CGN time is on my cell phone, while I'm on the move. Lol!
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I'd like you to ask yourself a few questions.

1) How long will you be shooting? A few years, or a few decades?
2) How expensive is your time? How much time can you spend reloading, and is that on top of the time you spend shooting?

I'm the resident Dillon 1050 pimp, so know my bias before I begin.

In your shoes, I'd be cutting to the chase and buying the press you really need up front. You can spend less, but the savings in cash up front will cost you in cash and time every day moving forward.

Put another way, if going cheaper saves you $1500, but costs you 2 hours a month, how much have you saved after 5 years?
 
DARKSTANG said:
I'm thinking the Dillon 650 is the way to go. I realize a single stage would be easier to watch and not make mistakes, but I go through a lot of .223 and with a family of 4 kids, I don't get much time on my own. Let's face it, most of my CGN time is on my cell phone, while I'm on the move. Lol!
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The RCBS X dies save a lot of die trimming which is very time consuming. Generally you only have to trim the cases once, not after every couple of firings. The X die goes in the size die station on the press.

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/XDieProductInstructions.pdf
 
way back when we had 30 round mags, you did- now that we have 5 round limits, you don't really- all you need is a TURRET and some dies- carbides are of NO advantage in rifle as you still have to lube and all the carbide is actually just a sizer ring in the base of the die- the rest of the die is STEEL- there's no need to spend extra money on that
so
1) turret press
2 dies- lee 223- either rgbs or the premium- difference is that the rgbs don't have the shellholder
3) scale
4) powder measure
5 tumbler
6 lube and pad( uninked stamp pad will do- or just spritz the rcbs spry on- you might have problems with hornady one-shot)
7)mdeia separator( get the rcbs one- making one out of icecream buckets looks like a good idea but isn't)
8)lee triimmer , pilot and case gage- the lee uses a set length decapper and you can never trim it too short- and it's dead cheap
9) hand primer- i like this BETTER than the one on the press-
10) hammer type bullet puller- for your mistakes- and there WILL be some- everybody does- even old farts like me who's been at it 40+ years
 
Canuck223 said:
I'd like you to ask yourself a few questions.

1) How long will you be shooting? A few years, or a few decades?
2) How expensive is your time? How much time can you spend reloading, and is that on top of the time you spend shooting?

I'm the resident Dillon 1050 pimp, so know my bias before I begin.

In your shoes, I'd be cutting to the chase and buying the press you really need up front. You can spend less, but the savings in cash up front will cost you in cash and time every day moving forward.

Put another way, if going cheaper saves you $1500, but costs you 2 hours a month, how much have you saved after 5 years?
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No,
That's the whole point of me asking. I more or less wanted the advice on what all to get. Dillon makes great stuff. On the other hand Hornady also makes good stuff too. At this point I'm already sold on it. I did a count on how much ammo I go through and it's about $800per month. I hate when I look at it that way, but doing this for the first time isn't a small step either. Once I decide on a press in the next week or so, ill be on the band Wagon. It's not like I lack the brass for either .40 or .223 either. I've done a quick check on my labled bags and I have some where near 10,000 brass for .223 and about 40,000 brass for the .40. Thanks in big part to my job. Lol!
 
I'm curious. Does anyone know how many times I can reuse the the .223 brass, from the first reload? Or the .40 too for that matter too.
 
DARKSTANG said:
I'm curious. Does anyone know how many times I can reuse the the .223 brass, from the first reload? Or the .40 too for that matter too.
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Until you lose them, for the most part.:D

In all seriousness, out of a semi you are likely as not to lose a case before you wear it out.
 
cancer said:
You know what would get you the exact same results at far less cost? Buy a Hornady LNL AP, some extra bushings and TWO (2) complete powder measure assemblies. it's tinkering with the powder measure that I find eats the most time up when I switch calibres.

Set up powder measure A for your favourite .223 Rem charge and powder measure B for your favourite .40 S&W and you're off to the races. The Hornady LNL AP uses the same primer setup for small rifle and small pistol, so that stays the same and changing dies and powder measures with the hornady quick release bushings takes literally one second per station to do and is completely idiot proof. All you'd have to do is swap a new shell plate on and presto, you've switched from calibre A to calibre B in under 1 min flat on your first time doing it. Seriously, it's really easy and your results are inevitably repeatable to the last time you used your press in the new calibre with the quick change bushings (the dies don't move forward or back and you don't re-adjust them, you simply swap them out).

If you don't believe me, find someone with a LNL press and see it for yourself in action.
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this is the way to go! Changing the powder measure is a pain in the ass on the LNL AP. Shell plate and dies with bushings take seconds!


as to reloading pistol vs rifle, there are many differences:
-dont have to trim or lube pistol rounds, which is a time intensive process.
-you will be up and running for .40 quickly while .223 there is a longer learning curve

also the hornady powder dispenser is picky with powder type. for example, it will not throw a large flake powder like unique very well, while it will have no problems with a small powder like titegroup

the other thing is time vs money. There are savings in reloading but it will use up plenty of time. The most expensive part is the bullet.

I recently bought 1000 .223 for $0.41 per shot (federal black box tactical, $360+tax), to buy components for reloading you are looking at:

1000 lake city 55gr projectiles: $120 + tax (budget shooting supply)
1000 primers: $32 +tax (lebaron)
1 lb powder: 27 + tax (lebaron)
Cases: Free (supply own)

Lets say you use 22 grains of powder per round, then with 7000 grains/lb, you get 318 rounds, therefore lets round up to 3lb for 1000 rounds.

Total cost for reloading 1000 .223's then becomes $330 (after taxes OR 0.33 per round) + your time + gear price.............. about $75 bucks of savings per 1000 but lots of time
 
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Another advantage is you will have higher quality ammunition then factory.

I have collected reloading supplies from when I loaded my pistol also from also owning a Dillon Square Deal B in. 40

I'd say I spent about 730 for my 650 with dies.
Then the trimmer, super swager, brass tumbler, case gauge, bullet puller, etc
The 650 cranks out though once u get going.
 
cyclic said:
Another advantage is you will have higher quality ammunition then factory.

I have collected reloading supplies from when I loaded my pistol also from also owning a Dillon Square Deal B in. 40

I'd say I spent about 730 for my 650 with dies.
Then the trimmer, super swager, brass tumbler, case gauge, bullet puller, etc
The 650 cranks out though once u get going.
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And friend of my dad's uses one of those for his Cowboy loads and swears by them. They are a great little machine.
 
luke s said:
this is the way to go! Changing the powder measure is a pain in the ass on the LNL AP. Shell plate and dies with bushings take seconds!


as to reloading pistol vs rifle, there are many differences:
-dont have to trim or lube pistol rounds, which is a time intensive process.
-you will be up and running for .40 quickly while .223 there is a longer learning curve

also the hornady powder dispenser is picky with powder type. for example, it will not throw a large flake powder like unique very well, while it will have no problems with a small powder like titegroup

the other thing is time vs money. There are savings in reloading but it will use up plenty of time. The most expensive part is the bullet.

I recently bought 1000 .223 for $0.41 per shot (federal black box tactical, $360+tax), to buy components for reloading you are looking at:

1000 lake city 55gr projectiles: $120 + tax (budget shooting supply)
1000 primers: $32 +tax (lebaron)
1 lb powder: 27 + tax (lebaron)
Cases: Free (supply own)

Lets say you use 22 grains of powder per round, then with 7000 grains/lb, you get 318 rounds, therefore lets round up to 3lb for 1000 rounds.

Total cost for reloading 1000 .223's then becomes $330 (after taxes OR 0.33 per round) + your time + gear price.............. about $75 bucks of savings per 1000 but lots of time
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Did you just compare a tuned hand load to Blackbox Federal Milsurp/bulk box. My .223 shoots 1/2-3/4 MOA if I do my part with Hornady 55's, I am locky to shoot 1.5MOA with black box tactical.
 
shell_guy said:
Did you just compare a tuned hand load to Blackbox Federal Milsurp/bulk box. My .223 shoots 1/2-3/4 MOA if I do my part with Hornady 55's, I am locky to shoot 1.5MOA with black box tactical.
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sub moa from a semi auto with ammo reloaded on a progressive!!! really, lets see some pics of your groups. What semi auto do you use and what distance.
 
I have to stick up for Luke S. Its definately do-able in an AR platform. If your all set for that with a good bullbarrel AR, that's very common.

I'm a short AR lover and without trying with standing shots, I'm still doing 2" to 3". That's with a 10.5". If you haven't tried the AR platform rifle, you must. I've been building them for the last 20 years and they are a pretty practical rifle. Too bad "Big Brother" made them restricted.:( A lot of those US shows on hunting, you see a lot of them using super modified AR's. More accurate than mine.

MOA is (Minuite Of Angle) this is done at 100 yards.
 
luke s said:
Total cost for reloading 1000 .223's then becomes $330 (after taxes OR 0.33 per round) + your time + gear price.............. about $75 bucks of savings per 1000 but lots of time
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Luke S is spot on! In my experience, I save money when loading bullets like the Noslers and Hornady's because they cost $40 a box...relatively. A real cost savings is realized.

My gear has long since been paid for. On the other hand, there is my time. I take the time to load my rifle and pistol ammo which I am going to use for shoots. If I am going to plink or go to the range for something to do, I will not shoot the expensive bullets in reloads. I will buy the cheapest box of whatever and blast away because my time is valuable.

For me, reloading is a labour of love and a great hobby. Not a full time job. Is it worth paying an extra $5.00 for cheap 223 shells...you betcha! Is it worth paying an extra $12.00 for cowboy loads, nope because they load fast and for the $12, I can almost double my shells in double the time it takes me to use the gas and time to go to the store (per box). Is it worth buying the premium factory ammunition....no way. With reloads, I am precise and consistent. Takes time, but well worth it in terms of the recipes I developed and results.

See....it's all relative.
 
DARKSTANG said:
I have to stick up for Luke S. Its definately do-able in an AR platform. If your all set for that with a good bullbarrel AR, that's very common.

I'm a short AR lover and without trying with standing shots, I'm still doing 2" to 3". That's with a 10.5". If you haven't tried the AR platform rifle, you must. I've been building them for the last 20 years and they are a pretty practical rifle. Too bad "Big Brother" made them restricted.:( A lot of those US shows on hunting, you see a lot of them using super modified AR's. More accurate than mine.

MOA is (Minuite Of Angle) this is done at 100 yards.
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Minute of angle is just that, 1"@ 100- 2"@ 200 and so on to infinity.
 
luke s said:
sub moa from a semi auto with ammo reloaded on a progressive!!! really, lets see some pics of your groups. What semi auto do you use and what distance.
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Sorry, I shold have compared apples to apples, I am shooting a heavy barrel bolt action F-Class. I missed the part of the thread where we were talking about semi/short AR. For plinking from an AR I would jus buy bulk AE as well.
 
shell_guy said:
Sorry, I shold have compared apples to apples, I am shooting a heavy barrel bolt action F-Class. I missed the part of the thread where we were talking about semi/short AR. For plinking from an AR I would jus buy bulk AE as well.
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Meh,
Who cares. It's been informative to me. All you guys have been really helpful. I'm thinking king for the amounts I might go with a 1050 Dillon. Sounds like that will be most likely, the best way without worrying if it will not take all the abuse.

Bullk AE is good stuff but I'm hoping it's cheaper with all the brass I've already collected. Hopefully.
 
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