30-06's heavier bullet argument

Dogleg said:
Useing it as a lighter version of the .375 is probably its best use, too bad it usually isn't legal for what the .375 excells at, ie doing everything, everywhere. It doesn't fare as well as a fat .300. .473 at 2700 doesn't stack up all that well to .588 at 2900 (200 gr accubond)

Your rifle might be a few ounces less than my .338 (Kimber). Felt recoil is considerably higher than my .375s which are more conventional weight.
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I think it does stack up quite well...for what I do. I don't need to make extreme long range shots, so the "advantage" of the 200 Accubond's BC is on paper only. I sight in for 2.75" high at 100, and am only 5.5" low at 300. At 450 yards I should still have 2000fps and 2411 ft-lbs, with 71.71 ft-lb/s of momentum. Even without comparing to anything else, what does all that mean? It means it will effectively kill any game animal I am going to be hunting.

But for argument's sake, take the 200 Accubond at 2950fps (stout .300 Win Mag load) and you have 3.2" drop at 300 and 2379 ft-lbs and 63.13 ft-lb/s at 450 yards.

Interestingly the OGW at 450 yards is 759lbs vs 744lbs in "favour" of the .338 bullet.

All of the numbers are just for intraweb purposes. It doesn't make much difference in the real world, although if I were to choose I'd take the 200gr Partition over the Accubond anyways.
 
Boomer said:
I like the .30/06 and I like heavy for caliber lead core bullets which I believe edges the .30/06 into the powerful rifle class. A bullet with a long lead core which impacts at moderate velocity tends to damage less edible meat as the bullet expansion is slower than a lighter bullet's whose impact velocity is higher, but where the target is denser, it opens up a bit bigger resulting in a larger wound volume while the heavy weight provides sufficient momentum to ensure deep penetration. The effect of the larger frontal area of these heavy bullets must be seen to be believed, but on light game like deer they upset only about the same as a 150, and will tend to shoot right through. The limiting factor in your choice of bullet is the twist of the barrel. My .30/06 has a 1:10 twist and will shoot any .30 caliber hunting bullet made thus far, but my wife's 1:12 Husqvarna won't stabilize the very long ones, so I load hers with 180 gr TSXs.

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Have you tried the 220gr Partition Semi-Spitzer? I, and a couple of friends, used it in our .300 Win Mags. They performed very well on grizzly, moose, elk and even deer.

I believe Phil Schoemaker (Grizzly Skins of Alaska for those who don't know) uses 200gr Partitions in his .30/06 Sprgfld. He also did some testing on beached whales and found that the 220gr Partition out penetrated every other expanding bullet, up to .505 Gibbs (iirc).
 
Boomer said:
I like the .30/06 and I like heavy for caliber lead core bullets which I believe edges the .30/06 into the powerful rifle class. A bullet with a long lead core which impacts at moderate velocity tends to damage less edible meat as the bullet expansion is slower than a lighter bullet's whose impact velocity is higher, but where the target is denser, it opens up a bit bigger resulting in a larger wound volume while the heavy weight provides sufficient momentum to ensure deep penetration. The effect of the larger frontal area of these heavy bullets must be seen to be believed, but on light game like deer they upset only about the same as a 150, and will tend to shoot right through. The limiting factor in your choice of bullet is the twist of the barrel. My .30/06 has a 1:10 twist and will shoot any .30 caliber hunting bullet made thus far, but my wife's 1:12 Husqvarna won't stabilize the very long ones, so I load hers with 180 gr TSXs.

DSC08355.jpg
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What kind of velocity can you get with 240's in a 30/06??
 
A 240 in a .30-06 is the way to go on the big stuff. I have been toying with the idea of developing a load for that bullet for shooting big critters in the bush up close and personal.
 
1899 said:
I think it does stack up quite well...for what I do. I don't need to make extreme long range shots, so the "advantage" of the 200 Accubond's BC is on paper only. I sight in for 2.75" high at 100, and am only 5.5" low at 300. At 450 yards I should still have 2000fps and 2411 ft-lbs, with 71.71 ft-lb/s of momentum. Even without comparing to anything else, what does all that mean? It means it will effectively kill any game animal I am going to be hunting.

But for argument's sake, take the 200 Accubond at 2950fps (stout .300 Win Mag load) and you have 3.2" drop at 300 and 2379 ft-lbs and 63.13 ft-lb/s at 450 yards.

Interestingly the OGW at 450 yards is 759lbs vs 744lbs in "favour" of the .338 bullet.

All of the numbers are just for intraweb purposes. It doesn't make much difference in the real world, although if I were to choose I'd take the 200gr Partition over the Accubond anyways.
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My real world includes wind drift and long range. In that world a decrease in drift of 1/3 isn't easily discounted. Think of it as a sideways trajectory.
 
Dogleg said:
My real world includes wind drift and long range. In that world a decrease in drift of 1/3 isn't easily discounted. Think of it as a sideways trajectory.
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At 300 yards in 10mph the difference is 1.9", at 450 yards the difference is 4.7". Accubond to Accubond the difference is 0.6" at 300 yards and 1.5" at 450 yards. Your cross hair will cover ~1" at that distance!

For target shooting I can see a difference (and even there it will depend more on the skill of the pesron shooting). For practical hunting at normal ranges, there is no difference.
 
Those numbers matter to me actually if the rifle's a reach out there gun, as most .300's and .338's can be called upon to be. I've just gained an interest in trying to push my comfortable hunting max range to 600 yards as of late. I have some hunts coming up I should be capable of those shots for, and it's a fun challenge too. This said, I think the .338 can be loaded to do well out there too.
 
Ardent said:
Those numbers matter to me actually if the rifle's a reach out there gun, as most .300's and .338's can be called upon to be. I've just gained an interest in trying to push my comfortable hunting max range to 600 yards as of late. I have some hunts coming up I should be capable of those shots for, and it's a fun challenge too. This said, I think the .338 can be loaded to do well out there too.
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And what you say is true. I, however, do not have the skills to make reliable, consistant shots to that range, so for me it is a moot point. For those who do, well more power to you!

As I said in my first post on the topic..."for what I do".
 
If the action length is the same with the rifle you want, get the 30.06. It has a
bit more power and handles heavier bullets better than the .308. I shoot Barnes
Vor-tx 168 grain TTSX cartridges in my 30.06 and it's a bang-flop proposition
with the moose I've shot. They're loaded pretty warm and the 165/168 grain
bullet is probably the best for the 30.06 ballistically, it shoots flat and the Barnes
168 grain TTSX gets the job done. I wouldn't bother with going with the 180 grain
TTSX unless I were going to hunt grizzlies. One more thing, with the 30.06 being
so popular you generally find a good selection of ammo in most gun shops.
 
1899 said:
Have you tried the 220gr Partition Semi-Spitzer? I, and a couple of friends, used it in our .300 Win Mags. They performed very well on grizzly, moose, elk and even deer.

I believe Phil Schoemaker (Grizzly Skins of Alaska for those who don't know) uses 200gr Partitions in his .30/06 Sprgfld. He also did some testing on beached whales and found that the 220gr Partition out penetrated every other expanding bullet, up to .505 Gibbs (iirc).
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Phil tends to be finicky, he said the same thing about the old 400 gr .458 X bullet on the same whale. I've thought about using washed up whales for bullet testing, but the ones here too often have a polar bear attached to them.

Its funny, I've got a couple of boxes of Partitions on my bench but I haven't loaded them for some time. There was a story done years ago, I can't remember who wrote it (it might have even been Jack O'Conner, but I don't mean to put words in his mouth) that Nosler had changed the alloy in the Partition and it didn't perform in the fashion that made the older bullets famous. With the advent of mono-metal and solid shank bonded bullets with their high retained weight, I just never went back to the Partitions. After that they where never very high on my list; just goes to show how easily we can be led down the garden path sometimes.

As a rule, the .30/06 when loaded with a blunt nosed 220, it has proven to be a good killer on even very large game.
 
Boomer said:
I've settled on Hodgdon's H-100V, but R-19 is similar, being slower than H-4350 but a bit faster than 4831.


I don't supppose you have ever had Norma 205/MRP to try with the 240 bullets.
It's much denser than H4831, taking up considerably less space in the case, but the same weight usually gives a little more velocity than does 4831, without showing more pressure.
Also, I am always aquainting H4831 to the original war surplus variety. When Hodgdon's started making new 4831, I tested it against my old surplus. With the traditional load, 60 grains in a 270 with 130 grain bullet, five cartridges of each loaded identical, except for the powder, the old surplus gave 102 fps more velocity than did the new H4831, and considerable less variation, as measured with an Oehler.
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H4831 said:
Boomer said:
I've settled on Hodgdon's H-100V, but R-19 is similar, being slower than H-4350 but a bit faster than 4831.


I don't supppose you have ever had Norma 205/MRP to try with the 240 bullets.
It's much denser than H4831, taking up considerably less space in the case, but the same weight usually gives a little more velocity than does 4831, without showing more pressure.
Also, I am always aquainting H4831 to the original war surplus variety. When Hodgdon's started making new 4831, I tested it against my old surplus. With the traditional load, 60 grains in a 270 with 130 grain bullet, five cartridges of each loaded identical, except for the powder, the old surplus gave 102 fps more velocity than did the new H4831, and considerable less variation, as measured with an Oehler.
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How does H4831SC stack up against 205/MRP? I just bought a pound for my .250/3000 as it seems to be the go-to powder for the 115/120gr bullets. With regular H4831 the load density is 104% at the low 45,000CUP limit for the cartridge. I thought the SC version would allow for some extra testing as it is more dense, but perhaps I should try and find some Norma powder too.
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Boomer said:
Phil tends to be finicky, he said the same thing about the old 400 gr .458 X bullet on the same whale. I've thought about using washed up whales for bullet testing, but the ones here too often have a polar bear attached to them.
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It could be that he is finicky. Someone on 24hr Campfire asked about the 240's in the .30/06 and Phil said the 22o Partitions penetrated 2x as far as the 240 Woodleighs.

All I can say is that the 220 Partitions work very well!
 
Dogleg said:
Whenever someone does a bullet test they always seem to get stuck on penetration like its the only attribute that matters. Why not use solids for everything then?
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You've hit the nail on the head when it comes to the mono bullet crowd.

I guess that was the most repeatable measurement until the advent of the bullet test-tube.
 
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