30-06's heavier bullet argument

I've long loved the .308, and killed more game with it than any other centerfire, but if you are wanting to shoot heavy .30 cal bullets, the .308 is not the way to go. I'm a bit of a fan of Berger's 210gr VLD, and in my experience, the .308 is NOT "nearly the same" as a 30-06 with bullets that long. A 30-06 with 210gr VLD's over RL-17 can easily get you 3300+ ft/lbs at the muzzle, and out past 400 yards the VLD will carry more energy than plain jane 300 win mag 180gr factory ammo. There isn't anything that you can to to a .308 to honestly compare to that.
 
No question that the venerable 30-06 has an edge over the 308, and the edge increases as bullet weight goes up.
For the average hunter who seldom takes a shot over 200 yards, it's a rather moot point.
However, if you are shooting heavy bullets, then the '06 is the better choice.
In the T3, as mentioned, you may as well opt for the larger case.
Regards, Eagleye
 
The main problem with both the 308 and the 06 is that once you own either you have no need for another rifle and I would find that very sad, that is why as soon as I find myself owning one I sell it very quickly probably at a loss.
 
BigUglyMan said:
Somewhat incorrect. The 30-06 may be longer but it has more case taper than the 308 thus making extraction easier. The more case taper the faster the brass is moved away from the chamber walls. Straighter cases slide against the chamber wall where tapered cases are instantly seperated from the chamber wall as they are drawn rearwards. Hence why the 300 H&H feed, in both directions, like a greased snake.
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The taper for all purposes is the same. I'm not sure if you are just reading SAAMI case specs and not accounting for the larger .308 Winchester diameter of .454 versus the '06's .441, being there because the .308 is taken .388 sooner on the taper. There is a very tiny advantage I think to the '06 overall in taper, but in autoloading rifles, with the hot brass still expanded on start of extraction process, this is lost. The autoloading '06 will be presenting far more expanded surface area to the chamber walls on extraction starting from the gas impulse, and I believe dampening some of the total available extraction energy, if it gets the same gas impulse cycle.. Also the '06 has a fairly longer neck, the softest thinnest part of the case, which will still be gripping the chamber at extraction start. Get the gas impulse of with handloads in autoloaders, and watch them tear of rims or even seperate cases as in the Swedish 42 6.5X55. Remember till the bulet exits the barrel, the total pressure inside the barrel can be as high as 30,000 psi, enough to keep brass expanded and in contact with chamber wall. I believe there is just a fine line between the time it takes to get extraction started and the bullet leaving and dropping pressure, that the total extraction can be more hampered the more surface area you have in contact.

In my experiences with autoloading sporting rifles, if there going to be FTE from any cause i.e dirty or rough chamber, it will be more likely in the full length '06 cases. I've seen the BAR with the .30-06 and in particular the .270 case, which has a longer neck even than the '06, give poorer reliability with factory ammo, than the same rifle in .308. I never saw a BAR not shuck a .308. I've seen far less FTE with the Remington 7400's. Do they port larger for the '06, .280, and the .270, I'm not sure. Does browning run the same port diameter, I'm not sure. These observations on the reliability of these rifles over the last 35 years, has led me to draw this conclusion. It is not control tested fact.

It is open for more debate.;)
I haven't read this anywhere. Or at least I don't recall reading it. If you have links to good data on this very subject please post them.:)
 
30'06 does better than 308 with 180gr bullets in any factory load.

Further, monolythic bullets in the 165gr weight tend to be the same length or longer than 180gr bullets and thus the 308 suffers the same loss of case capacity there too.

If you believe we may someday be compelled by law to shoot non toxic rounds, then the 30'06 could actually be more future proof.
 
crayton said:
One other consideration: for the extra "punch" of the .30-06 you also have to contend with more recoil. This of course can be mitigated by recoil pads but it should be a consideration if you intend to throw large amounts of lead downrange on a regular basis.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
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actually yeah, I intend to shoot the s*&^* out of this thing. whatever I buy is gonna get alot of range attention along side my .22. If I do go for the tikka(like the brownings too) I dont think Ill get the light version cause its gonna be a range gun that will hopefully be used on a deer soon enough and I dont want a light gun wacking the crap out of my skinny frame in the meantime.

still I can prolly just go 30-06 and load it down to .308-like specs right.

thanks for the input gents learning happened here
 
Ardent said:
I didn't read the thread and I'm sure I'm at odds with many here, but here's how I see it:

-Would be peculiar to choose the .308 given the action is a long action as you mention, take the extra capability of the .30-06.

-Yes, the .30-06 does much better with heavier bullets like 200 and 220gr, and I appreciate that as my main hunting focus is very heavy game, African in particular. Not everyone shares the same interests so whether this applies to your reasoning or not is your consideration.

-I find .30-06 easier to source in small towns, hardware shops, etc. More than once I had trouble even finding .308 brass, bizarrely enough. .30-06 is always everywhere.

-.30-06 does outperform .308, no matter what anyone tells you. Difference isn't huge, and in probably 95% of hunting doesn't matter, but it's real. A difference is a difference and I'd choose the more capable even if only by a little when they're the same price, and in the same length action anyhow.

-Basically, you'll gain nothing by choosing the .308, you will actually gain something however small by choosing the .30-06.

-Happy hunting, both kill game. :)
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I agree 100% Well said Ardent.
 
I've always reloaded the 150 grain in my 30-06's because I primarly hunt deer. If I was going to hunt bigger game,(moose/elk) it would be the 180 grain. Moreover, I be reaching for the 300 Weatherby loaded with the 180's just in case there is that real long shot for better penetration.
On another note, and needless to say, shot placement with a premium bullet such as the Nosler partition or accubond is key.:D
 
I used a 308 Kimber for a number of years as my whitetail rifle and it worked great. I love the short action, 308 case family of cartridges for deer.

I tended to have more than one rifle and used the 308(or in different seasons a 260, 6.5 swede) when I was only hunting deer. I like my deer rifles to be light and handy. I also had a series of 300 magnums that I carried when I had multiple species tags.

I loaded pretty frangible bullets for deer only, 150 gr ballistic tips in the 308 and tough bullets for the 300's (TSX and drove them hard).

If I was buying one rifle for everything though, I would pick the 30-06. If you are going to use one load per gun(my choice) it would be the 168 grTSX to 2850-2900 fps in the 06. Tough bullets are built to be driven fast as they penetrate and open up better and the 06 does that better than the 308.
 
I use 30-06 mainly because I fluked into it. I have shot both and hunted with both. I agree with an earlier post that there is nothing in North America you can't hunt with either caliber. I think that it comes down to a simple matter of personal preference. I have a 167 grain BT reload setup for 30-06. I have hunted extensively with it and it has worked out well for me. Having said that I prefer to compete with .308.
 
The .30-06 is a great cartridge. You can get 2750-2800 fps with a 180gr Partition and that load is fine for any big game animal in North America. In fact, the 165gr Partition at 2900 fps would be ok too. These loads shoot flat enough for just about any hunting situation.

It is funny though, looking at modern views regarding premium bullets. I was reading Jack O'Connor's The Rifle Book last night, and at page 232 (2nd Ed.) he states:

The best all-around bullet for the .30/06 is the 180-grain, The velocity of 2,700 foot-seconds is high enough to give a reasonably flat trajectory, and the bullet is heavy enough to penetrate well. Particularly in the bullets of heavy construction like the Silvertip and Core-Lokt it has all the penetration I want for any American big game. I remember shooting a grizzly on a sandbar in the Yukon with the 180-grain Core-Lokt. Every bullet went clear through the broadside and kicked up sand on the far side of the bear. With the same bullets I broke both shoulders of another grizzly and the bullets went clear through.
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And on page 233, a very interesting endorsement:
The 220-grain bullets are for the heaviest game such as moose, Alaskan brown bear, and possibly elk in heavy timber. The controlled expanding bullets like the 220-grain Silvertip and Core-Lokt are probably best for medium-sized and dangerous African and Asiatic game like lions and tigers. With those bullets the .30/06 seems to be an entirely adequate lion rifle.
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1899 said:
The .30-06 is a great cartridge. You can get 2750-2800 fps with a 180gr Partition and that load is fine for any big game animal in North America. In fact, the 165gr Partition at 2900 fps would be ok too. These loads shoot flat enough for just about any hunting situation.

It is funny though, looking at modern views regarding premium bullets. I was reading Jack O'Connor's The Rifle Book last night, and at page 232 (2nd Ed.) he states:



And on page 233, a very interesting endorsement:
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I enjoyed that book! I think I've read it twice. It really puts things into perspective. I think the 308 is to the 30-06 is the 30-06 is to the 300 win mag.About 200 fps faster with heavy bullets from my experience. With that being said I don't think any north american game would tell the difference under 300 yards with a properly placed and constructed bullet from either of the cartridges in question.
 
Fozy said:
I use 30-06 mainly because I fluked into it. I have shot both and hunted with both. I agree with an earlier post that there is nothing in North America you can't hunt with either caliber.
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I agree there's nothing you can't hunt with a .30-06 in North America, however it is light for these guys. It's our legal minimum here for them, akin to the .23 caliber minimum rule for deer we have. This one was shot with a .30-06- backed up by a .375. It's one of those pet peeves of mine, lots of guys say for instance ".260 Rem is perfect for anything in North America.", when we have some pretty big stuff on the continent including lots of the largest subspecies of Bison, Wood Bison which go over 2,000lbs and are rather tough. :)

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It's one of those pet peeves of mine, lots of guys say for instance ".260 Rem is perfect for anything in North America
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Usually when people say that sort of thing they throw in the disclaimer "If you were paying the bill", because they aren't ever going to be trying it anyway. Hell, I'd hunt everything in North America with a 44/40 if someone else was paying the bill and made that a condition. Oddly the offer never comes up, but I'm not giveing up hope yet.

What I see in guided hunting camps where guys are doing and paying instead of speculateing is a pile of .300s for the small gun.
 
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