Is my die screwed?

LUTNIT

LUTNIT

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I let my friend use my press and dies the other day since he's moving and has his stuff in storage. He was resizing IVI brass that I guess was fired in a machinegun since it was hugely oversized. He had to use a lot of lube and go slow and still had a hell of a time sizing them. Anyway I resized some Winchester brass I collected at the range today and they all came out like this:

7404763094_4ebd56bd78_b.jpg


The striation marks on the neck have never been there before. The cartridges still chamber fine but the marks are deep enough to feel with finger tips.

It is an RCBS full length .308 Win resizing die. I've never resized nickle plated cases with this die.
 
I'd be taking that die apart and having a close look. Those striations are too dense to be just wear on the die. SOmething ain't right.
 
Did he clean the brass beforehand? Looks like the neck sizing part of the die is horribly scratched or gouged. Take it apart and run a Q-tip and see if it catches.
 
Canuck223 said:
I'd be taking that die apart and having a close look. Those striations are too dense to be just wear on the die. SOmething ain't right.
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I just took the die apart and looked inside. The die body inside is mirror smooth but in the neck area it's dull/frosted but not visible marked. Q-tips don't snag on the inside of the neck area.

Forgot to mention I am using RCBS Case Lube 2 and apply it with my fingers on the top half the case. I cover the top half of the body and all of the shoulder and neck. I then scrape my fingers over the open end to get some inside. (ruined my lube pad a little while ago and haven't replaced it yet.)

hunter5425 said:
Did he clean the brass beforehand? Looks like the neck sizing part of the die is horribly scratched or gouged. Take it apart and run a Q-tip and see if it catches.
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All the brass was cleaned. It was quite rusted so it was run in my tumbler overnight with corncob; came out fairly shiny.

cosmic said:
Are you using the right die? Perhaps you were using the seating die - I can see crimp marks on the case.
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The crimp marks are left over from the factory crimp. All the primers where punched out so it was definitely the resizing die. The brass is once fired new factory loads I got from a guy shooting a semi Remington rifle of some sort. The case pictured is an FC case, not a Winchester case, I got that part wrong but they both have the same marks (just different factory crimps).
 
LUTNIT said:
It was quite rusted so it was run in my tumbler overnight with corncob; came out fairly shiny.
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Brass doesn't rust.

If your buddy sized rusted steel cases chances are the neck portion of the die is scratched up pretty badly. You may be able to clean up the neck portion of the die with lapping compound but I wouldn't count on it.
 
IMHO that die might be a little to soft from lousy heathreading if so then RCBS would be more than happy to exchange it for free. Any self polishing will void the warranty. Any other brand and lapping it and final polishing would fix the problem b/c most of them are squizing the necks to much IMO and enlarging it couple of thousand of an inch would do no harm.
 
'Boo said:
Brass doesn't rust.

If your buddy sized rusted steel cases chances are the neck portion of the die is scratched up pretty badly. You may be able to clean up the neck portion of the die with lapping compound but I wouldn't count on it.
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Um.... brass does rust. It doesn't get a red-orange rust like steel does but it goes brown-green because of the copper in it. Brass "tarnish" is rust by another name; it's all an oxide from atmospheric exposure of some kind.

The cases in question are 2004 production IVI ammo and is sitting right in front of me (hes moving so he left them here.) They had a rusty coating on them that I have seen on a lot of old range brass that was sitting under the snow all winter as well as old exterior hardware like hinges and door knobs which are also made from brass.

The orange in this pic is most likely iron rust that has run down from an iron or steel pipe above but under it you can see the brown-green rust on the brass:
http://www.portlandground.com/downtown/2005-10-14portlandbrasswork.jpg

gunrunner8 said:
IMHO that die might be a little to soft from lousy heathreading if so then RCBS would be more than happy to exchange it for free. Any self polishing will void the warranty. Any other brand and lapping it and final polishing would fix the problem b/c most of them are squizing the necks to much IMO and enlarging it couple of thousand of an inch would do no harm.
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I'll throw them a message and see what they say. I have heard great things about their customer service before but haven't had to use it before.
 
Actually, brass does not rust. Rust is a term that specifically refers to the reaction between oxygen and ferrous (iron) materials. Brass is non-ferrous. Oxidation on brass is not called rust.

RCBS might replace that die with no questions or they might ask you to send it to them at your expense for inspection. That's what they asked me to do with a bad die. Spending $30 to send them a die when I can buy a complete new set for $45 didn't make much sense and i told them I'd just buy a Lee. Tell your buddy he owes you a new sizing die and let him figure it out. He broke it and he should fix it.
 
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Upon closer inspection there are some minor vertical marks on the inside of the die in the neck portion. They are visible but I can't feel them with the tip of a pin or anything I try to use.

jethunter said:
Actually, brass does not rust. Rust is a term that specifically refers to the reaction between oxygen and ferrous (iron) materials. Brass is non-ferrous. Oxidation on brass is not called rust.
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You're supposed to learn something new every day, right? Guess I've been using the word "rust" incorrectly. I'll just swap over to the word "corroded" for everything instead :p

jethunter said:
RCBS might replace that die with no questions or they might ask you to send it to them at your expense for inspection. That's what they asked me to do with a bad die. Spending $30 to send them a die when I can buy a complete new set for $45 didn't make much sense and i told them I'd just buy a Lee. Tell your buddy he owes you a new sizing die and let him figure it out. He broke it and he should fix it.
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I ran into that issue with Lee. They wanted me to send in a broken press I bought for $27 new that would cost $25 to ship to them. My friend has no issue buying me a new die so it's all good. I just found it really odd that a brass case managed to damage the die like this.
 
The chemical reaction between metals & oxygen is called "oxidization", and we specifically refer to the reaction between iron & oxygen as "rust" because that is the colour it turns as it oxidizes.
That black you see on your sceen door is also oxidization between the aluminum and oxygen. Same as Silver tarnish, brass tarnish, etc. It's all oxidization.

Back on topic, that steel (and case hardened I believe) die should not be getting marked up by running brass cases which are a relatively soft metal through them. If that was the case whenever we resize .308 down to .243 for example we would see threads like this one and we dont. I ran some 7mm mag through a .257wby die with no issue at all.

So I'm thinking either there is something wrong with the die to start with or he was running somehing pretty hard through them (steel cases?)

I think he owes you a new size die. Might as well buy a set from Hornady and get the 100 bullets for free while you are at it
 
I had a neck sizing die with some lighter scratches that the one you show

if I put the sized brass in the tumbler for 1 hour the marks were gone
and one day got fed up with it

What I Did was clean die and I trimmed the end of a wooden Popsicle stick to fit in the neck area of the die (tight) I then used some JB BORE BRIGHT bore finishing compound

By hand I turned the Popsicle stick and after 5- 10 min cleaned die and retried it and marks were gone from the sized brass

Note
JB BORE BRIGHT bore finishing compound is very fine I would not use anything heavier

Disclaimer
Use at your own risk
 
I was having the same problem but not as bad with new Lapua brass and RCBS dies. I took a piece of green 3M pad, stuffed it into the die and grabbed the other end with a drill. After a few seconds I stuffed a rag in to the die to make sure it was clean and that restored it to new.
 
Bigbubba said:
The chemical reaction between metals & oxygen is called "oxidization", and we specifically refer to the reaction between iron & oxygen as "rust" because that is the colour it turns as it oxidizes.
That black you see on your sceen door is also oxidization between the aluminum and oxygen. Same as Silver tarnish, brass tarnish, etc. It's all oxidization.
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Oxygen is not required for oxidization to happen. Florine is a much stronger oxidizing agent than oxygen is. It was originally thought that only oxygen worked so it was named "oxidization" but it was later found that many other elements can also have the same effect.

It is also possible to oxidize non-metals in some weird situations.

I knew what corrosion/oxidization is but I have always used the term "rust" to refer to all oxidization. I didn't realize it was specific to iron.

Also aluminum oxide is white-grey. The black on aluminum screens is usually dirt and dust.

Bigbubba said:
that steel (and case hardened I believe) die should not be getting marked up by running brass cases which are a relatively soft metal through them. If that was the case whenever we resize .308 down to .243 for example we would see threads like this one and we dont.
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I have resized many .243 cases into .308 cases with this die and never ran into problems. Not the same as the other way around but still something. It is possible he had some steel cases in there that messed it up. The brass in question was collected from a Canadian Forces training session at a civilian range.

Aren't most steel cases berdan primed though? The decapping pin is still fine so I figured it would have been bent if steel cases where run through it.

just having some fun said:
if I put the sized brass in the tumbler for 1 hour the marks were gone
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I tried tumbling the brass for 4 hours but they where still there. The marks are pretty deep (I can feel them with my finger tips.)

tacticalII said:
I was having the same problem but not as bad with new Lapua brass and RCBS dies. I took a piece of green 3M pad, stuffed it into the die and grabbed the other end with a drill. After a few seconds I stuffed a rag in to the die to make sure it was clean and that restored it to new.
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I'll give that a shot. I have absolutely no fired .308 at the moment so it will have to wait for testing after my next range trip.
 
Not really trusting what it is, your friend did not really return it to you in its original state... ergo he should buy you new dies...??? You can do this, that, or t'other, run them back to RCBS, etc.... simple solution - get buddy to buy you a new set of dies.
 
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