Stag Arms model 2 eating itself??

smeagol

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Let me open by saying I'm not whining about my rifle looking worn, I'm just a little concerned that the wear is excessive given how little it's been cycled.

So I just purchased this rifle from Stag Arms a few weeks ago. I received it shortly after and since then have been slowly getting in the parts I ordered for the rifle. I haven't changed anything inside the receiver/BCG/charging handle, all the parts were external (buttstock, quad rail, etc.)

This rifle has never been fired by me. When I first received the rifle, I worked the action several times, and noted it felt gritty. I tore the rifle down, cleaned it thoroughly and oiled it. The action still felt gritty, however this is not uncommon from what I understand while the rifle is breaking in. I continued to work the action, tore it down and cleaned and oiled it a few more times. Each time I was getting what almost lookeked like a fine grey silt out of the upper, especially in the channels that guide the charging handle. I started to notice what seemed to me like excessive wearing inside the receiver. Closer inspection revealed that the front of the original charging handle was cracked and bent upwards. Not sure when this happened, likely progressively as the action seemed to feel slightly grittier and harder to cycle as I went on (attributed to the handle becoming more bent?). By hard to cycle I don't mean I was having to reef on the thing to cycle the action, I just mean that it was nowhere smooth as other ARs. There is a mark at the front of the original handle likely from the bolt carrier that probably caused the bend & cracks.

The inside of the receiver also appears to have excessive wear at the top (see photos, from the "nub" on top of the tip of the bent handle rubbing) and also in the channels that guide the tabs on the side of the charging handle, especially on the left side. The left channel seems to be worn more than the right, and more rough.

I replaced the charging handle with a new one initially thinking the original handle was the issue. After another cleaning and oiling, I put the new handle in and cycled the action some. After ~50 cycles or so, there appeared to be excessive wear on the handle, especially on the underside, left side. Very rough wearing, and the rough spot on the handle also appeared to be starting to gouge the top of the part of the lower receiver where the receiver extension tube connects.

The action has been cycled approx 200 times (~150 times with the original charging handle and ~50 times with the new replacement handle).

Either the upper receiver was out of spec, the original charging handle or both. My first thought is that the original charging handle was the issue, and after it cracked and bent, it started tearing up the inside, and now the upper needs replacing. Not too sure, but I'd sure like to find out, and get this gun up and running so I can take it out to the range! All this money and time and I haven't even fired the thing yet!

I spoke with Steve at Arms East, they requested a few days ago I send a bunch of photos to them first and they will decide what they are doing from there (send me a few parts or replace the whole rifle I suppose). I'm sure Arms East will take care of me no problem, but I just wish I could get this thing to the range!

Smeags

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Looks like normal wear to me. The broken ch could have accelerated such wear marks but its nothing to be concerned about.

The wear on the side of the ch is likely the result of cycling the action from one side with one hand only. This causes the ch to twist or torque and rub one side more than the other.

See what arms east says and go with it.

Tdc
 
I agree with TDC. The uneven wear is likely caused from the addition of a tac latch. It's going to put some lateral torque on the handle.

Aside from the cracked old handle, nothing inn those pictures looks like unusual wear for an AR. It will break into itself.
 
A buddy has a stag carbine with about 8k through it. Manually it feels gritty but to shoot its smooth as glass. No abnormal or excessive wear on any parts either.

Tdc
 
you guys are the pros so I defer to your expertise. I did however note the uneven wear before I put in the charging handle with the tac latch...

Also that mark on the lower near the receiver extension is more than a mark, it's turning into a gouge. I still have trouble seeing how that's normal wear and tear for a gun only cycled ~200 times and never fired (except at the factory). The gun will work into itself but I've never seen it try to work into itself so roughly
 
see how it shoots, everything looks normal to me though, I have similar marks on my guns that appeared at the usual contact points.

except this one, this mark looks very wrong, if it still gets worse after you shoot a hundred rounds or so, and it doesnt go away when you change the charging handle, you may have something out of spec with teh BCG or reciever, but you really need to actually shoot the rifle to know.
Upper01.jpg
but the bend at the end of teh first charging handle would explain that
 
Not sure how much oil you are using, but ar's like to be run wet.

YMMV

Ricka2


Yup, she's running very wet, and the more oil i used, the more grey silt I got from the wearing in, which I would guess is somewhat normal, to a point. This isn't my first ar, just the first one I've had new. The only real concerning thing to me is the gouge that is starting to form on the Lower. All the ARs and C7s I've used, never seen anything like that. Seems like something is off kilter. Maybe the old handle when it busted bound up and marred the channel a bit and now the new handle is a bit rough and needs some working in to smooth things out?

Hope it's all related to that "new gun smell"



I'll wait to hear back from Arms East, hopefully they tell me to leave it for now, go blast away and see if things get worse, I have another 1000 rounds coming in from SFRC and the suspense is killing me.
 
The gouge on the lower looks like it's from the Tac latch (aluminum can be quite bendy when it's a thin part) as well as the uneven wear marks. The big grabbing area of the handle can cause a lot of extra torque, although I doubt it will ever hurt anything you will notice some extra wear because of it. Could be 6061 T6 instead of 7075 T6 which would be a little stiffer.

The big issue I see is the old charging handle that was cracked and the subsequent scrape on the top of the inside of the upper.


Did the scrape start after the Tac Latch was installed?
 
Other than the crack in the original charging handle it all looks normal to me. The little "groove" in the top go the lower is most likely from the little roll pin in the charging handle sticking out the bottom a few thousandths too far.
 
First of all did you try contacting Walter from Arms East?
It does look like your upper is out of spec in the gap area of were your charging handel reside's. Hence why you are putting a cant on it every time you charge it due to too much play. Although before :bangHead: call Walter & he will set it straight.
 
Run a better charge handle, something like a BCM or PRI gas buster. Better built and easier to access.

The wear is normal. Its metal on metal contact, they're going to "mate" and wear in. Charge handles fail and get replaced.

TDC
 
The gouge on the lower looks like it's from the Tac latch (aluminum can be quite bendy when it's a thin part) as well as the uneven wear marks. The big grabbing area of the handle can cause a lot of extra torque, although I doubt it will ever hurt anything you will notice some extra wear because of it. Could be 6061 T6 instead of 7075 T6 which would be a little stiffer.

The big issue I see is the old charging handle that was cracked and the subsequent scrape on the top of the inside of the upper.


Did the scrape start after the Tac Latch was installed?

Nope the big wear mark in the top inside the receiver is from the bent tip of the busted handle
 
Other than the crack in the original charging handle it all looks normal to me. The little "groove" in the top go the lower is most likely from the little roll pin in the charging handle sticking out the bottom a few thousandths too far.

Good thought ill check it when I'm done shift
 
First of all did you try contacting Walter from Arms East?
It does look like your upper is out of spec in the gap area of were your charging handel reside's. Hence why you are putting a cant on it every time you charge it due to too much play. Although before :bangHead: call Walter & he will set it straight.

Yep spokewoth Steve already and they are checking things out. I've no doubt they'll take great care of me! Solid guys to deal with so far
 
Service rifles are way more beat up than any of those pics. Crack in the cocking handle obviously a big deal, but I wouldnt sweat the wear marks.. Its metal on metal. Our weapons get pretty abused and work just fine....
 
You Sir, need a new charging handle.
There is one in the post to you, let us know how it works out.
If you want to keep the tac-latch, swap it into the new charging handle.
Some surface wear on an AR bolt will be normal, it does stabilize quickly though.
Anything else, keep in touch.

Thanks again,
Walter

-Otherwise, saw asked, Stag Arms charging handles are mil spec 7075. I put the boots to them same as the CF charging handle.
 
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