Question on webley accuracy

Rotaxpower

Rotaxpower

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I got a webley mark 1 in 455 and was just wondering what kind of accuracy a guy should get out of it. I have been loading a 265grn hollow base bullet with 4grns of unique with less than stellar results :(. About 3' groups at 15 yards.... What are these pistols capable of accuracy wise? Thanks guys/gals!
 
Rotaxpower said:
I got a webley mark 1 in 455 and was just wondering what kind of accuracy a guy should get out of it. I have been loading a 265grn hollow base bullet with 4grns of unique with less than stellar results :(. About 3' groups at 15 yards.... What are these pistols capable of accuracy wise? Thanks guys/gals!
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I got excellent accuracy from my Mk VI but can't remember the group size. It was important to use the long tapered point and hollow base slugs to get the accuracy. The round nose, solid base and undersize bullets for 45 colt and 45 auto did not shoot worth a damn for me

cheers mooncoon
 
:)I asked the same question of this board, a couple years back.
Was told 4-5 inches at 25 yds is considered quite good from a tight Mk1.

That is what mine averages, ... the odd 3 incher does show up tho, to keep me seeking a better load.(or to learn how to shoot)

This one of mine is .45 ACP'd, with .454" 215gr SWC's, in shortened .45 Win Mag brass and #2400 powder.

Will be trying a HB mold next .... As the throats are tighter than the bore.
 
There are a couple of issues that affect accuracy with the older Webleys, more so with the MK 1 which were principly designed for blackpowder rounds with soft lead,hollow based bullets. The biggest issue is cylinder throats that are narrower than grove diamter of the barrel. The following is a snippet from brownells site that explains it nicely. " When the cylinder throats are undersized, or smaller than the groove diameter of the barrel. In this situation, the bullet is squeezed down upon entering the cylinder throat and then bumped up when entering the barrel to fill the groove diameter. The problem occurs when the bullet, which is now undersize for the barrel, does not bump up to proper diameter. This happens with both hard cast bullets and jacketed bullets, leaving a bullet traveling down the bore without a good seal or proper rifling engagement, resulting in excessive bore leading and imperfect alignment upon leaving the muzzle, and the result at the target is poor accuracy."

This was a non issue for newer Webleys when they transitioned to smokless powder as you started seeing cylinder throats the same diameter as barrels. Unfortunately it's hard to peg the changes just on Marks as often cylinders and barrel were exchanged indiscriminetly when they were rearseneled or later in the lives by new owners. I have a MK II in which cylinder choke matches the barrel and shoots flat based .452 inch bullets perfectly fine and the hollow based bullets actually perform worse. Even so I get pie plate accuracy at 25 yards. You will also get better accuracy with the longer barrels in the Mark 5 vs the shorter barrels in the earlier marks. Also if you are migrating from pistol to revolver try shooting from a rest first to determine your baseline accuracy.
If you want a real accurate shooter pick up a Webley WG, these were the bullseye shooter of the day, the Marks were combat pistols meant to functions as a weapon of last resort, full of mud at close quarters(and they were indeed darn good at that).
 
My Mk I in .455, shooting the Fiocchi factory ammo (don't know if it's hollow base or not?) Gets about 3' groups at 15-20 yards. (Yes, 3 feet, not inches). Shooting at a 2 foot square target from that distance, I get about 3 hits on the target out out six shots. So I too am wondering if this is whether this is just what should be expected from an antique? It's fun to shoot anyway, but a bit better accuracy would be nice. I hope to reload some of my own ammo using hollow base bullets in the near future, to see if it makes a difference. Just for fun I chrono'd the Fiocchi ammo, and it was anywhere from 580 to 640 fps.
 
in the mk 1 i would load nothing but blackpowder with it and a soft near pure lead and good BP lube it should shoot very well

if your worried about cleaning well it simple(with real stuff like goex and swiss) remove the cylinder let it soak in hot water then take your cleaning rod and pump hot water through the barrel(from the breech end) clen out the whole barrel and cylinder with patching wipe any part that the buring powder touches with hot water and then dry and oil your done

if you dont want to do that ive been looking for a uncut webley mk 1 or mk 2 :p
 
Softish lead bullets will shoot better than harder ones. Heavier loads usually shoot better regardless if they are smokeless or black because the heavier powder charges expand the bullet base or skirt so it grabs the rifling better. The rifling in these pistols is very shallow and the bullet needs all the help it can get to engage the rifling. Weak powder charges don't expand the hollow base as well. 4.0 gr Unique in the hornady MKII cartridge with a 265 gr HB is a good medium load, warm enough to obturate the bullet but still well under 12K psi.

How tight is your hinge / frame lockup? Play in the hinge/latch mechanisms will make your groups fatter. Usually this play is mostly a product of a loose hinge. Frames and barrels on these pistols are quite soft and they tend to loosen up. I've had very good results from resetting the hinges and group size shows a marked improvement when a loose hinge is corrected.
 
This target below was shot with my antique remington 1875 useing wolf 45 acp SWC ammo at 20 yds. that same ammo in my MKI**and MKII * shoots about 3 inch to 6 inch groups at 20 Yds depending on gun used so not all antiques shoot the same but the remington has a 7.5 inch mint bored barrel.
Ive had a few webleys that shoot better with 6 inch barrels. but the 4 inch ones tend to shoot 3 to 6 inchs groups depending on the ammo,, thats 455 Webleys.
I find the older domion 455 ammos shoot better when reloaded than fiochhi because the domion cases are longer so the bullets jump is less.
Try some 455 domimion cases see if your groups tighten.
In 45 acp guns theres a few tricks to getting better accuracy.

Note... im talking shooting off a rest not freehand.
If your shooting free hand and getting big groups try off a rest frist thats the way to test a gun.

Also Jethunter is right about underloaded cases if your loads are to weak your gun aint gona shoot for s**t!

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I have a MK3, would that one have the throats and bore same size? I think my .452 cactus plains bullets are too small, they tumble, and at 10yds, 3 ft groups. Now, when my reloading stuff hadn't got here yet I pulled the bullets on some modern copper jacketed factory .45 acp and swapped the powder with a light load of unique, and that was pop can accurate at ten yards 2 out of 3 shots.
 
I have a MkIV with tight cylinder mouths. I used Fiocchi factory ammo many years ago to win more than a few beers in the Kingston police range when we did Wednesday night accuracy shoots. Everybody laughed at my wobbly Webley until the scores were counted. It would regularly centre all the shots in a 25yd NRA target inside the 9 ring. This would be about a 2" group at 25yds.
 
Milsparro said:
I have a MK3, would that one have the throats and bore same size? I think my .452 cactus plains bullets are too small, they tumble, and at 10yds, 3 ft groups. Now, when my reloading stuff hadn't got here yet I pulled the bullets on some modern copper jacketed factory .45 acp and swapped the powder with a light load of unique, and that was pop can accurate at ten yards 2 out of 3 shots.
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I had some cactus plains bullets that were supposedly .452" but they measured under .451".

Hard to say about the bore and throats sizes on your MKIII, you really have to slug the barrel to find out and go from there.

The tighter throated revolvers like the MKI/II/III are a bit harder to get to shoot accurately in my experience but you can coax a lot of them to shoot 3" groups at 25 yds if you tighten the frame and use the right bullet for your bore. Hollow based bullets shoot better in some revolvers.
 
I have a WG army, not quite the same as the MK1 but close and I can shoot 6 inch plates at 25 with ease even in double action if I do my part. I get the feeling it can shoot better than I can though.
 
The WG doesn't have those tight throats like the MKI/II/III and is capable of very good accuracy. I have a 6" .476 that will shoot sub 2 inch at 25 yds using unmodified 45 Schofield brass and .455" flat based bullets. I'm hoping to better that when my .457" hollow base mould comes in.
 
Thanks for the help guys, my boolits are cast with pure lead, the mold I am using is the rcbs webley mold. Also there is no play in the hinge and it locks up super tight. I wonder if I should bump the charge up a bit and try it again? I also bought some trail boss, I wonder if I should try that powder? Anyone have any recommendations for a staring load for it?
 
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