Already have one. There is no reason not to do this. If I had the funds, I'd buy an XCR as well.
A Way to Get 10 Rounds in SKS Legally?
- Thread starter mdmaroon
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Already have one. There is no reason not to do this. If I had the funds, I'd buy an XCR as well.
Why? When you can use a legal pistol mag in your gun and also get 10 rounds?
Some people ...
Try 1889 Shmidt Rubin 12 rounds of 7.5x55 Swiss
So I think I'm almost done adapting the XCR magazine to my SKS and my advice is go spend $2000 on a real XCR rifle. It'll be a lot easier.
Initially, I was testing it with two dummy rounds. It worked great. Then I put ten rounds in it (8 real ones and two dummy rounds on top). That's when everything turned into a complete cluster_uck.
The cartridges are jammed in so tight that when the bolt pushes the top one forward, the rim hooks into the groove on the cartridge below it and then the nose of the top one angles down and jams against the front of the magazine.
To prevent this, you have to be sure to release the bolt and just let it ram forward so that the cartridges don't have much chance to hook together.
I've made a few modifications to allow the magazine to sit at a different angle, with the front end angled up a little more. This seems better, but I'm done with it for tonight.
Anyway, I'm not going to show anyone how to do this until it works perfectly. I wouldn't want anyone to ruin a good SKS.
Initially, I was testing it with two dummy rounds. It worked great. Then I put ten rounds in it (8 real ones and two dummy rounds on top). That's when everything turned into a complete cluster_uck.
The cartridges are jammed in so tight that when the bolt pushes the top one forward, the rim hooks into the groove on the cartridge below it and then the nose of the top one angles down and jams against the front of the magazine.
To prevent this, you have to be sure to release the bolt and just let it ram forward so that the cartridges don't have much chance to hook together.
I've made a few modifications to allow the magazine to sit at a different angle, with the front end angled up a little more. This seems better, but I'm done with it for tonight.
Anyway, I'm not going to show anyone how to do this until it works perfectly. I wouldn't want anyone to ruin a good SKS.
Many modern bolt actions have 10 round, detachable mags as well.
As said many times...its more then JUST an adapter that needs to be made...you need to mill out parts of the internals on the firearms as well.
it sounds like in USE...when you let to bolt slam, it will run better then during "house testing".
I've done some more testing and I think I've determined that the XCR magazine is a poor design for the 7.62x39mm round.
You may have noticed that every other 7.62x39mm magazine is curved. The AK magazine is curved, the VZ.58 magazine is curved, the SKS-D magazine is curved, etc. THERE'S A REASON FOR THIS and now I know what it is. Obviously it's to compensate for the taper of the cartridge.
The XCR was probably designed originally for the 5.56mm NATO cartridge. These cartridges are not tapered as much as the 7.62x39. They can behave themselves in a straight magazine. You can't just shove a bunch of 7.62x39 in the same magazine and expect them to feed well.
When you fill the XCR magazine with 7.62x39mm cartridges, the fat ends of the cartridges are all packed together tightly, but the fronts have space between them. When you push on the back of the top cartridge, the first thing it does is lean forward to close the gap, but this points the nose of the cartridge down so that when it finally does move forward, it rams right into the front wall of the magazine!
The XCR magazine is not going to work in the SKS, because it doesn't even work in the XCR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSU_d1DNVFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_B8tDu-Dc
If I could modify the magazine, then this would be easy. I would just cut away the part of the front wall that the cartridges ram into, and change the angle of the magazine a bit so they line up with the chamber. Or modifying the follower could work, possibly.
Unforutnately, I don't think it's legal to modify the magazine.
So it's looking like it might be time to scrap this idea. It's really too bad. I had the magazine mounted in the gun, with a catch to hold it in place and everything. It was nice and solid. It just clicked in and lined up perfectly. With only a few rounds in the magazine, it would feed perfectly. Put 10 rounds in and the spring tension is too high, so it just jams.
EDIT: It only took me a few minutes of googling to find some discussions about 7.62x39 being really unreliable in AR style mags. The XCR is an AR style mag, right? No wonder this crap doesn't work. It's because they don't work. Now I've bubba'd my SKS real bad. I'm going to need to buy a new trigger group and bolt to put it back to normal. (it still works with the old magazine, but I'll just get new parts anyway. I don't think they're very expensive). Or maybe I'll just toss the whole thing and buy another.
You may have noticed that every other 7.62x39mm magazine is curved. The AK magazine is curved, the VZ.58 magazine is curved, the SKS-D magazine is curved, etc. THERE'S A REASON FOR THIS and now I know what it is. Obviously it's to compensate for the taper of the cartridge.
The XCR was probably designed originally for the 5.56mm NATO cartridge. These cartridges are not tapered as much as the 7.62x39. They can behave themselves in a straight magazine. You can't just shove a bunch of 7.62x39 in the same magazine and expect them to feed well.
When you fill the XCR magazine with 7.62x39mm cartridges, the fat ends of the cartridges are all packed together tightly, but the fronts have space between them. When you push on the back of the top cartridge, the first thing it does is lean forward to close the gap, but this points the nose of the cartridge down so that when it finally does move forward, it rams right into the front wall of the magazine!
The XCR magazine is not going to work in the SKS, because it doesn't even work in the XCR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSU_d1DNVFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_B8tDu-Dc
If I could modify the magazine, then this would be easy. I would just cut away the part of the front wall that the cartridges ram into, and change the angle of the magazine a bit so they line up with the chamber. Or modifying the follower could work, possibly.
Unforutnately, I don't think it's legal to modify the magazine.
So it's looking like it might be time to scrap this idea. It's really too bad. I had the magazine mounted in the gun, with a catch to hold it in place and everything. It was nice and solid. It just clicked in and lined up perfectly. With only a few rounds in the magazine, it would feed perfectly. Put 10 rounds in and the spring tension is too high, so it just jams.
EDIT: It only took me a few minutes of googling to find some discussions about 7.62x39 being really unreliable in AR style mags. The XCR is an AR style mag, right? No wonder this crap doesn't work. It's because they don't work. Now I've bubba'd my SKS real bad. I'm going to need to buy a new trigger group and bolt to put it back to normal. (it still works with the old magazine, but I'll just get new parts anyway. I don't think they're very expensive). Or maybe I'll just toss the whole thing and buy another.
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Yeah. The internet is full of threads with people discussing feeding problems with 7.62x39 in their AR's. AR magazines just don't work with that round because the taper is too extreme.
I wish I knew that the magazine itself was not reliable before I decided to adapt it to my gun!
The XCR magazine is actually just an AR magazine, isn't it?
Hmmm... I'm kind of torn here... Because of reliability issues with 7.62x39 in an AR style magazine, it doesn't work well when it is full. However, I might be able to get it to feed reliably with less rounds. Maybe seven? That's still better than five, but I mean really...for the amount of effort that this was...argg... And if it only works with five rounds, or even six? What's the point?
Now that my gun is bubba'd all to hell, I might just keep the XCR mag in it, but only put in as many rounds as will work reliably. I gotta say, it LOOKS pretty darn cool with the AR style mag hanging out of it...
I'll play with it a bit more tonight and see if I can get it to feed with less than 10 rounds. I guess if it can reliably feed six rounds, at least I'll have SOMETHING to show for my efforts. One more round, yay.
Now that my gun is bubba'd all to hell, I might just keep the XCR mag in it, but only put in as many rounds as will work reliably. I gotta say, it LOOKS pretty darn cool with the AR style mag hanging out of it...
I'll play with it a bit more tonight and see if I can get it to feed with less than 10 rounds. I guess if it can reliably feed six rounds, at least I'll have SOMETHING to show for my efforts. One more round, yay.
Hmmm... I'm kind of torn here... Because of reliability issues with 7.62x39 in an AR style magazine, it doesn't work well when it is full. However, I might be able to get it to feed reliably with less rounds. Maybe seven? That's still better than five, but I mean really...for the amount of effort that this was...argg... And if it only works with five rounds, or even six? What's the point?
Now that my gun is bubba'd all to hell, I might just keep the XCR mag in it, but only put in as many rounds as will work reliably. I gotta say, it LOOKS pretty darn cool with the AR style mag hanging out of it...
I'll play with it a bit more tonight and see if I can get it to feed with less than 10 rounds. I guess if it can reliably feed six rounds, at least I'll have SOMETHING to show for my efforts. One more round, yay.
If it really is such a widely recognized design flaw, it's possible that an updated version will be released that will work properly with the 7.62x39. If that's the case, you are already set up to use it. Robinson Arms is hardly a fly-by-night company and I doubt they would want a flawed product attached to their name. Maybe there are already suggested fixes out there? One can hope, right?
That's true. There are also other AR magazines that I could use, like five round rifle mags. I think some of them are really cheap, like $10 for plastic ones.
I suppose having my SKS modified to take AR mags isn't a bad thing.
One of my co-workers has a CZ-858 with the BT Magazine Well adapter and he uses the XCR 10 round pistol magazines as well. That's where I got the idea to do this. Guess what, he also has feeding issues. It works pretty well if he's very careful about how the rounds are positioned in the magazine. If you just stuff them in and hope it'll work, it usually won't, so there are issues.. It's not just me.
Oh well, if I can get it to work with five round AR magazines, I'll be in the same boat as a guy with an AR, but with superior communist technology.
EDIT: In all fairness, I did get the magazine to work eventually, but it was very difficult. I still think it's not an ideal design for the x39 cartridge.
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So I just googled AR 10 round 7.62x39 magazine and looked at the first place that was selling them. People don't have many nice things to say. (This is virtually the same as the XCR 10 round pistol magazine that I'm using).
Thomas Moleterno of Prescott Valley, AZ
1 starsDate Posted: 5/16/2004I had six of these and only one would work.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 25 found it helpful | 7 did notWes H of Fort Worth, TX
1 starsDate Posted: 11/4/2004Purchased 3 magazines, none of the 3 would work in my AR-15 rifle. This magazine is poor in design. No ammo of any kind or bullet design would feed properly.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 21 found it helpful | 2 did notCharlie Thompson of Palm Bay, Fl
1 starsDate Posted: 6/1/2005Had two of these. Neither would feed rounds straight. Waste your time if you want to.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 11 found it helpful | 1 did notjim ellis of little rock, ar
1 starsDate Posted: 5/1/2006I bought 6. They are all worthless. None would feed to Colt or DPMS AR. I do not know if anyone makes an acceptable 7.62 mag. If you know, please share info.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 7 found it helpful | 0 did notBrown Bear Wolf of midwest, Il
1 starsDate Posted: 8/23/2007Waste of time. I returned this mag because it would only hold 9 rounds and would jam every other round. I recommend Promag .223 10 round it holds 6 7.62x39s and feeds pretty reliably. I ordered a Promag 20 .223, straight mags feed the best. C Products is supposed to be coming out with a 30 round 7.62x39 in December. Thought about trying a 6.5 Grendel mag since they have a larger diameter.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 10 found it helpful | 2 did notWesley Eddy of Perris, CA
1 starsDate Posted: 3/16/2010Quality control missed one. Had to file the back of the magazine to get it to fit. Would not allow the bolt to close if more than 5 rounds are in it. Had to install a smaller spring. Works ok now. Would have sent back but it was the only one I had.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 0 found it helpful | 0 did notBilly Stevens of Citrus Heights, CA
1 starsDate Posted: 5/5/2011Very poor design keeps jamming would not recommend to anyone.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 0 found it helpful | 0 did not
Like, hello? Why does this magazine exist?
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So I just googled AR 10 round 7.62x39 magazine and looked at the first place that was selling them. People don't have many nice things to say. (This is virtually the same as the XCR 10 round pistol magazine that I'm using).
Thomas Moleterno of Prescott Valley, AZ
1 starsDate Posted: 5/16/2004I had six of these and only one would work.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 25 found it helpful | 7 did notWes H of Fort Worth, TX
1 starsDate Posted: 11/4/2004Purchased 3 magazines, none of the 3 would work in my AR-15 rifle. This magazine is poor in design. No ammo of any kind or bullet design would feed properly.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 21 found it helpful | 2 did notCharlie Thompson of Palm Bay, Fl
1 starsDate Posted: 6/1/2005Had two of these. Neither would feed rounds straight. Waste your time if you want to.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 11 found it helpful | 1 did notjim ellis of little rock, ar
1 starsDate Posted: 5/1/2006I bought 6. They are all worthless. None would feed to Colt or DPMS AR. I do not know if anyone makes an acceptable 7.62 mag. If you know, please share info.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 7 found it helpful | 0 did notBrown Bear Wolf of midwest, Il
1 starsDate Posted: 8/23/2007Waste of time. I returned this mag because it would only hold 9 rounds and would jam every other round. I recommend Promag .223 10 round it holds 6 7.62x39s and feeds pretty reliably. I ordered a Promag 20 .223, straight mags feed the best. C Products is supposed to be coming out with a 30 round 7.62x39 in December. Thought about trying a 6.5 Grendel mag since they have a larger diameter.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 10 found it helpful | 2 did notWesley Eddy of Perris, CA
1 starsDate Posted: 3/16/2010Quality control missed one. Had to file the back of the magazine to get it to fit. Would not allow the bolt to close if more than 5 rounds are in it. Had to install a smaller spring. Works ok now. Would have sent back but it was the only one I had.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 0 found it helpful | 0 did notBilly Stevens of Citrus Heights, CA
1 starsDate Posted: 5/5/2011Very poor design keeps jamming would not recommend to anyone.
Was this review helpful? Yes No 0 found it helpful | 0 did not
Like, hello? Why does this magazine exist?
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I read you efforts with this magazine with interest, but I had no idea what the magazine looked like. I just assumed it had a "curve" and that it worked properly in the original firearm. I'm kinda astonished to hear it doesn't. I don't understand why a business would try to market such a shoddy product, what were they thinking? This isn't some kind of subtle flaw here...
Foolishly, I'm still at it.
I've now reached a point where I have to take the bolt to work and weld some more metal back onto it. I ground away just a little too much in one area.
I just can't give up. What's wrong with me?
I've now reached a point where I have to take the bolt to work and weld some more metal back onto it. I ground away just a little too much in one area.
I just can't give up. What's wrong with me?
Tenacity. Nothing to be ashamed of. Tenacity can lead to great things. In my experience, it can also lead to a pile of scrap metal, but hey, that's part of the fun.
So I managed to reconstruct the bolt. I had ground away a little too much material from the lower front edge, to clear the front of the magazine when the bolt moves down into the locked position.
I welded some more metal on and ground it into shape.
I'm so close to getting this thing working now! (That's what I keep telling myself).
I welded some more metal on and ground it into shape.
I'm so close to getting this thing working now! (That's what I keep telling myself).
I'm pretty happy right now.... I finally got it working!!! With a full magazine!
Bolt hold open works. I had a small issue in the video, but I fixed it right after.
Stripper clips work too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc63FhBzAK8
Bolt hold open works. I had a small issue in the video, but I fixed it right after.
Stripper clips work too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc63FhBzAK8
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