CVA philadelphia derringer kit.

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labradorshooter

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I know where to get an old CVA philadelphia derringer kit that is not built still in the box, and I plan to get it and build it but I need to know all the legal information becasue I'm new to black powder guns and kit guns.

I do have my RPAL so If I have to register it that's not a problem. The CFC website is updating there facts sheets apparently and all the legal info for black powder guns is currently unavailable so what I basically need to know is the following:
-does it need to be registered? ( I'm thinking yes)
-at what point in the build do I have to register it?
-here is where things get tricky, the barrel length is border line between restricted and prohibited so I'm not sure if this model is going to flag as a prohib in there system when I call. if it is a prohib what are the chances I will get a 12.6 or 12.7 license? the current owner has his 12.6 so If it is a prohib then its in the right hands and wont get cut in half anyway.

here is a picture of the kit ( not my pic)
derringer%20kit.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg


a completed one
muzzle_vl_philderr_re02.jpg
 
The barrel is a prohibited device. It is illegal. Cannot be possessed, except as part of a registered 12-6 pistol.
If the current owner has 12-6 and if the pistol is currently registered to him it is legal. If it is not currently registered, it cannot be.
The pistol is not transferable to anyone as 12-7 because it is not pre-1946.
 
your only hope would be to round up a piece of barrel the same outside dimensions and over legal length. Assuming it to be registered, if you removed the breach plug at the present owner's home, he can turn the barrel in for destruction and you can fit the plug to the new barrel at your leisure. Then register the gun as home made (which is legal) Whatever registration is with the gun at present might or might not go with the barrel. Muzzle loaders are a bit unusual in the sense that the RCMP consider the barrel and breach plug to be the frame or receiver but there is no clear statement about the separated plug and barrel other than that it must exceed the minimum length

cheers mooncoon
 
I am a hobby machinest so I could make a new barrel from scratch but it would be smooth bore, I dont intend this gun to be a regular shooter in fact if I only ever fired one shot I would be happy I want it more for a show/ conversation piece. What type of steel would be alright for a barrel? Can I buy a bit of say 1" hex stock and bore it out etc etc?
 
labradorshooter said:
I am a hobby machinest so I could make a new barrel from scratch but it would be smooth bore, I dont intend this gun to be a regular shooter in fact if I only ever fired one shot I would be happy I want it more for a show/ conversation piece. What type of steel would be alright for a barrel? Can I buy a bit of say 1" hex stock and bore it out etc etc?
Click to expand...

you need octagon not hex but if you want to for hanging on the wall why not make a soild barrel
 
labradorshooter said:
I am a hobby machinest so I could make a new barrel from scratch but it would be smooth bore, I dont intend this gun to be a regular shooter in fact if I only ever fired one shot I would be happy I want it more for a show/ conversation piece. What type of steel would be alright for a barrel? Can I buy a bit of say 1" hex stock and bore it out etc etc?
Click to expand...

chunks of muzzle loading barrel are not uncommon at gunshows and you could probably pick up a piece long enough at a show for not very much. The common steels used in muzzle loading barrels are 12L10 and 4140 with 12L10 used by some because the guns are low pressure and the steel machines well. As Antique mentioned, the barrels are octagon not hexagon

cheers mooncoon
 
labradorshooter said:
Just thought of something, since this would be a wall hanger would it be legal to weld shut the muzzle of the original barrle this making it not a barrle ?
Click to expand...

a minor nit pick but I think if you pulled the plug and welded a rod to it then screwed the plug back in and welded the rod to the muzzle, the RCMP would accept it as deactivated. Alternately mill a slot down the bottom of the barrel out of sight. The problem with that method is that the gun would be a potential bomb if an unknowing person tried to shoot it. I suppose a fail safe would be to weld up the flash hole on the inside of the breach plug plus mill the slot in the bottom. That would prevent the gun being shot

cheers mooncoon
 
I'll probably weld a rod into it but maybe leave the last 1 inch on the muzzle open so it still looking like a barrel and not a chunk of iron.

I hate our stupid laws... the overall length of this gun is basically the same as my ruger SR9 but thats perfectly fine and has a 10 shot mag, but this old muzzle loader of the same overall size and only has one shot with less accuracy is prohibited! they need to get rid of this silly barrel length restriction!
 
labradorshooter said:
I'll probably weld a rod into it but maybe leave the last 1 inch on the muzzle open so it still looking like a barrel and not a chunk of iron.

I hate our stupid laws... the overall length of this gun is basically the same as my ruger SR9 but thats perfectly fine and has a 10 shot mag, but this old muzzle loader of the same overall size and only has one shot with less accuracy is prohibited! they need to get rid of this silly barrel length restriction!
Click to expand...

not to mention that that little gun so under powered i have someone with one and he sid back in the dy they would shoot at a board and it would bounce back. i wounder what cal the one that shot lincoln was
 
loki_81 said:
Yup, unfortunately the only way a person without 12.6 will enjoy something like that is a DEWAT wall hanger.
Click to expand...

or buy a original witch will set up back a good price i dont have a "philadelphia" derringer but i do have a boot pistol(also known as a muff pistol) with about a 2 1/2" barrel there cool but the powder charge is so small that it does not have much vol
 
For what it's worth there is a good chance that this kit was never registered. In the heyday of the CVA kits (70's-80's) I bought a Mountain Pistol kit (about 1982 IIRC) and the local firearms officer told me it didn't have to be registered until completion. I took it by the police station anyway on the way home and registered it in order to save the later multiple paperwork trips.
If this kit was never registered then 12(6) or not, it can't be registered now as is, and the work -arounds suggested are good ones.
 
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