If you have looked at several hundred 1894's, it is glaringly obvious, the rifle has had the serial number filed off. The contour of the bottom of the receiver where the number should be is off. No big deal and no reflection on you. Matt74's assessment is bang on as far as dating the gun. It has the gumwood stocks seen on 94 and 92 carbines built during the years 1910 until the 1920's. I have seen several with no number. It is around a hundred years old, who knows where it has been. There was one on the EE a few weeks ago with no serial number. Value is around $350 as a shooter, if the bore is good. It would fetch more than that if you parted it out, there is a pretty good market for vintage Winchester parts at present.
Mystery Win 94 30/30 w/no Serial #
- Thread starter solstice
- Start date
If you have looked at several hundred 1894's, it is glaringly obvious, the rifle has had the serial number filed off. The contour of the bottom of the receiver where the number should be is off. No big deal and no reflection on you. Matt74's assessment is bang on as far as dating the gun. It has the gumwood stocks seen on 94 and 92 carbines built during the years 1910 until the 1920's. I have seen several with no number. It is around a hundred years old, who knows where it has been. There was one on the EE a few weeks ago with no serial number. Value is around $350 as a shooter, if the bore is good. It would fetch more than that if you parted it out, there is a pretty good market for vintage Winchester parts at present.
Agreed that the serial number has been removed, just questioning that it means it was 'clearly' stolen. Of course it could have been, and I agree with previous posters to the point that it COULD have been, but I also know people on both sides of the border that in advance of changing legislation, changes in governments etc. have gone to great lengths to ensure 'the man' couldn't find or trace/track their beloved firearms. I think if one looked at the historical sale of PVC pipe and end caps there would be a corolated upswing related to political events. We have all seen an increase in the sale of 'well stored' firearms since the LG registry died, and there is more than one reason for that.
In the interest of full disclosure I bought the one without the serial number on EE mentioned above, from a very reputable seller on CGN I might add. The 'work' done on my rifle is somewhat more delicate than the example here but what they seem to share is that the removal was done many years ago judging by the patina over the area altered. With mine (maybe his one too) the removal seems to have been done with great care to not ugly up the gun. I agree with Mike Webb 'it's around a hundred years old, who knows where it has been' I don't agree that it means it's clearly been stolen although that is certainly one possibility. I bought the gun to shoot not to collect, I'm sure most guns her age have a few stories to tell.
What's it worth? Well like all things it's worth what two people, one selling, one buying are willing to agree upon. For me it was worth what I paid, serial number or not. (LEO/CFO were contacted to ensure the legality of the sale) Of course what most people are saying here is 100% correct, with the alteration it might not be worth much, if anything, to a historical collector.
Do I have my head in the sand, no, some time a long time ago the serial number could have been removed because it was stolen or worse. If you buy a milsurp that has seen service might that weapon have killed someone? Sure. Could there be other reasons the serial number was removed? Sure. (more than a few involve tinfoil hats). Would I remove a serial number, no. Would I buy anything that looked like the serial number had been removed in my lifetime (on the long side of forty headed to 50) no. Will I enjoy my rifle for what it is, yes.
Ps. I agree with Mike Webb on the ballpark value he mentions (altough I paid a little more) as it's condition as a shooter or 'parts' gun are largely if not the only determining factors given the removal of the serial number.
In the interest of full disclosure I bought the one without the serial number on EE mentioned above, from a very reputable seller on CGN I might add. The 'work' done on my rifle is somewhat more delicate than the example here but what they seem to share is that the removal was done many years ago judging by the patina over the area altered. With mine (maybe his one too) the removal seems to have been done with great care to not ugly up the gun. I agree with Mike Webb 'it's around a hundred years old, who knows where it has been' I don't agree that it means it's clearly been stolen although that is certainly one possibility. I bought the gun to shoot not to collect, I'm sure most guns her age have a few stories to tell.
What's it worth? Well like all things it's worth what two people, one selling, one buying are willing to agree upon. For me it was worth what I paid, serial number or not. (LEO/CFO were contacted to ensure the legality of the sale) Of course what most people are saying here is 100% correct, with the alteration it might not be worth much, if anything, to a historical collector.
Do I have my head in the sand, no, some time a long time ago the serial number could have been removed because it was stolen or worse. If you buy a milsurp that has seen service might that weapon have killed someone? Sure. Could there be other reasons the serial number was removed? Sure. (more than a few involve tinfoil hats). Would I remove a serial number, no. Would I buy anything that looked like the serial number had been removed in my lifetime (on the long side of forty headed to 50) no. Will I enjoy my rifle for what it is, yes.
Ps. I agree with Mike Webb on the ballpark value he mentions (altough I paid a little more) as it's condition as a shooter or 'parts' gun are largely if not the only determining factors given the removal of the serial number.
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I would never say a firearm with no serial number was "clearly stolen". Too many possibilities otherwise. As far as value, it is what it is worth to you that matters. Personally I have overpaid by some standards for a gun but if you want it, you want it. I didn't notice the tang peep sight either, they are worth $125 any day of the week by themselves.
okcorral1881
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East of Toronto
And the Winchester Express rear sight could bring a few $$ too!
I actually doubt the s/n being ground off was due to theft. The whole receiver has been polished hard probably because it was badly pitted and was refinished. A thief would only have messed with the s/n area not the whole thing.
Remember that 50 years ago and before the s/n wouldn't have meant a lot to anyone. There's about a 98% probability that even the owner wouldn't know what the s/n on his firearms were back in those days. It was a rifle, not a handgun and people generally didn't give a poop about s/n like we do today.
Probably the person who did the polishing and reblue several decades ago decided that no s/n looked better than a faint s/n did and took the whole thing off because he thought it looked better that way.
Remember that 50 years ago and before the s/n wouldn't have meant a lot to anyone. There's about a 98% probability that even the owner wouldn't know what the s/n on his firearms were back in those days. It was a rifle, not a handgun and people generally didn't give a poop about s/n like we do today.
Probably the person who did the polishing and reblue several decades ago decided that no s/n looked better than a faint s/n did and took the whole thing off because he thought it looked better that way.
I gotta say I'm impressed by the by all the help I've received here in the past couple of days. I paid $75 for the old girl to a friend rather than him turn it into the police and I'm glad I did.
I'm surprised the serial numbers have been removed as I see no sign of that being done but it is the only logical explanation isn't it.
Thanks again everyone.
I'm surprised the serial numbers have been removed as I see no sign of that being done but it is the only logical explanation isn't it.
Thanks again everyone.
okcorral1881
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East of Toronto
Matt, by memory, do you know the exact period that Winchester put flat stocks on their carbines?
OK
The demise of the LGR (except for Quebec) means the elimination of the bizarre FIN (Firearms Ident. No.). A s.n. is still of some value e.g. for insurance, ID in case of theft, or in this case, dating.
Side note: I once had a Lee Enfield with a ground-away serial number. In the early days of registration, someone suggested to me to ask the CFC to generate a "new" ser. no.., and I could then pay to have this phony s.n. stamped on my gun's receiver. Needless to say I didn't go for that suggestion.
) means the elimination of the bizarre FIN (Firearms Ident. No.). A s.n. is still of some value e.g. for insurance, ID in case of theft, or in this case, dating.Side note: I once had a Lee Enfield with a ground-away serial number. In the early days of registration, someone suggested to me to ask the CFC to generate a "new" ser. no.., and I could then pay to have this phony s.n. stamped on my gun's receiver. Needless to say I didn't go for that suggestion.
OK,
My apologies for the late response. Been working like a dog lately, not much time for anything.
That said, from what I have read, the change from the older style -more traditional - saddle ring carbine buttstock that "rolled over" the top of the buttstock to the several variations of flat buttplate occured somewhere around the 1,050,000 to 1,100,000 serial number range. Polishing Room records at Cody would put this change in 1927. Of course, there will be early ones, so this is generally. This stock design was made to utilize the shotgun-style serrated steel SG buttplate of the Model 55, a new variant of the model 94 which had been introduced in June 1924 to fill the gap between the standard Model 94 Sporting Rifle with its 26" barrel, and the Standard Carbine with its 20" barrel.
Hope this helps.
Matt
okcorral1881
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East of Toronto
