20ga reloading

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katanaa

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Regina, Sask
Hello everyone,

I recently got into recreational shooting and I have burned through a fair amount of 20ga shotgun shells and I was told to save the hulls as they can be reloaded for a fraction of the cost of buying ammo.

So I did some digging yesterday and if my math is correct it actually costs more money to reload than it does to buy target loads for my 20ga shotgun.

Would any of you mind verifying my calculations?
Here is what I got:

Assumptions:
Primers cost 34.99+tax =38.49 for 1000
Powder cost 30.99+tax =34.09 for 1lb = 454000mg
Wads cost 40.99+tax =45.09 for 1000
#9 Shot cost 49.99+tax =54.99 for 25lbs = 400oz

So I want to load trap loads and that is typically 7/8oz per load
= 0.1202$/round
and I have found that 17grains is rough estimate of the powder needed for that amount of shot, and that 1grain is equal to 64.79891mg
=0.083$/round
add one wadd at 0.045$ and one primer at 0.038$ and you get 0.287$ per round.

Which sounds pretty cheap, however all the ammunition that I have bought so far hasn't been much more that 70$ taxes in for 250 rounds = 0.28$ per round. Actually I've been getting it for 62.99+tax so 0.277$/round.

As I said, I would like someone who knows better than me if these prices are realistic and if my assumptions are correct.

Thanks
 
3macs1 said:
Unfortunately this is very true:(
Click to expand...

That's actually not true... IF you are comparing ammo for target you can't compare the cheapest Chinese made junk you find on sale for $40/flat. You need to compare it with the type of ammunution you are actually producing. i.e. if you're loading with WAA12 wads in AA hulls then compare it to actual AA's from a retailer. In Calgary they are going for $100/flat so you are actually saving quite a bit of money. And the spread with 20ga is even higher since you pay the same for the AA 20ga as you do for the 12ga. Remember: Apples to apples comparisons.

If you prefer to shoot quality ammunition then reloading saves you a bundle. If you're the type to walk out with the cheapest shells possible then you won't because you're shooting the lowest possible cost instead of the best possible quality...

BTW this link helps me calculate my costs: http://www.shootpita.com/reloading-cost.htm
 
ShawnM said:
That's actually not true... IF you are comparing ammo for target you can't compare the cheapest Chinese made junk you find on sale for $40/flat. You need to compare it with the type of ammunution you are actually producing.
BTW this link helps me calculate my costs: http://www.shootpita.com/reloading-cost.htm
Click to expand...

I'm currious was I not clear in my comparison? I thought I was comparing apples to apples. I stated in my original post that I was paying 62.99$ for 250 shells. However you are correct, I didn't say what exactly the loads where but they are the Federal target loads or Remington target loads. I have no idea of the quality of them.

Please if there is something wrong with my calculations please let me know that is why I made this post. That being said the only reason I would reload shot shells it to save money and to recycle the plastic hulls.

Not to sound like a novice but isn't the whole idea of a shot gun to trow a bunch of shot out of the end of the barrel and hope it hits something? Isn't precision best left to a fix breach riffle?
 
Oh, Thanks ShawnM for that link to the calculator I just tried it to verify my manual calculations and it came up with the same result that it will actually cost me 87 cents to reload a box of shells (not including my time).

And as an added "benefit" I could never pay for the cost of the reloading equipment.

----------Again I am only comparing target loads-----------
 
for poping clays theres no point of buying high end stuff that said even remington sts/gun club/nitro gol and winchester aa and federal gold medal are cheap

i buy the el-cheapo winchester bulk it works in the 870's and other guns i have the clays dont seem to mind

with shot at shuch a high right now its not worth it to buy.

if you really want to get cheap load ask you trap/skeet range if you can go play in the fall zone for a bit a cheap converter that plugs into the cigarette lighter of your car and a shop vac can land you a bunch of shot for cheap but it will take some sorting
 
My last wads cost 21.40/1000 2.14c/shell
powder about 20/lb 4.86c/shell
Primers 38/1000 3.8c/shell
7 1/2 shot 39/lb 8.5c/shell
total 19.3c/shell\
plus 12% tax = 21.6c/shell
25/ box = $5.40
My son likes to do the reloading so that is no labour committment, and he will soon be making his own shot so that cost will drop to very little.
 
$100 per flat for AA?
$70 per flat for cheap stuff?

At LeBarons in Ottawa I pay $70 per flat for AA and $50 per flat for the cheap Winchester target load (made in USA.) I guess there are some huge price discrepancies across Canada.
 
ShawnM said:
That's actually not true... IF you are comparing ammo for target you can't compare the cheapest Chinese made junk you find on sale for $40/flat. You need to compare it with the type of ammunution you are actually producing. i.e. if you're loading with WAA12 wads in AA hulls then compare it to actual AA's from a retailer. In Calgary they are going for $100/flat so you are actually saving quite a bit of money. And the spread with 20ga is even higher since you pay the same for the AA 20ga as you do for the 12ga. Remember: Apples to apples comparisons.

If you prefer to shoot quality ammunition then reloading saves you a bundle. If you're the type to walk out with the cheapest shells possible then you won't because you're shooting the lowest possible cost instead of the best possible quality...

BTW this link helps me calculate my costs: http://www.shootpita.com/reloading-cost.htm
Click to expand...

Federal Top guns sell here for 51.99 a flat. How many targets am I going to pick up by using AA's. NONE. So is it worth reloading 20 ga. NOPE other than maybe some hunting loads.
Buy hey what do I know I only reload all gauges 410-10g , buy lead by the ton to get the max saving etc for about 15-18,000 rounds a year which is down since I retired. Take care;)
 
3macs1 said:
Federal Top guns sell here for 51.99 a flat. How many targets am I going to pick up by using AA's. NONE. So is it worth reloading 20 ga. NOPE other than maybe some hunting loads.
Buy hey what do I know I only reload all gauges 410-10g , buy lead by the ton to get the max saving etc for about 15-18,000 rounds a year which is down since I retired. Take care;)
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Oh well I guess that makes you much smarter than me. If you don't think you'd pick up extra targets by switching to a premium ammunition then don't. I for one feel I do. Especially if I use faster loads i.e. the Remington nitros.

I just want you to give all the information to the new guys. You still reload? Why if there's no cost savings and no advantage to premium ammunition? You're leaving information out...
 
ShawnM said:
Oh well I guess that makes you much smarter than me. If you don't think you'd pick up extra targets by switching to a premium ammunition then don't. I for one feel I do. Especially if I use faster loads i.e. the Remington nitros.

I just want you to give all the information to the new guys. You still reload? Why if there's no cost savings and no advantage to premium ammunition? You're leaving information out...
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Nope never said I was smarter than anyone. Just stating in my area of canada you are wasting your time and components reloading 20ga today for 99% of the target shotgunners .
If I was still involved in competitions then I would probally be back to AA's just before and at the event just to blend in and shoot what specs they require but I would still shoot a ton of cheap federals also to get ready.
Just a comment also you talk about quality in todays premium factory shells that also stopped about 20 years ago with all manufacturers.
If you feel it makes you a better shooter fill your boots and shoot the faster nitro but if you are seeing a difference the extra speed is making up for your ability to read the target in your mind only or they may be patterning better in your gun.That you have checked of course. See a top gun 12ga is around 1145 in 1 1/8 12ga and a rem nitro 1235. Between 1150 and 1300 there is a 3inch difference in lead at 20 yards. One out of 1000 shooters can even see that in a site picture. I can assure you if there is no pattern difference it is just feel and your mind that thinks they are better and nothing else. In fact it goes against what the experts here say and I am not one that faster speed with the exception of the 410 ( higher speed better pattern ) is higher recoil which usually produces a decrease in gun control and a higher chance of flinching.
I think I pulled my 1st MEC handle in or around 1965 and still do but not as much. Like I said probally reload 15-18,000 rounds a year now mainly 28ga, 410, 16 and steel and buckshot in 12g 3" and 3 1/2 and 10ga.
I have progressives in every gauge but 10 including a 16ga 9000g which few can justify and another 14 or so sizemasters, steelmasters and jr's. Quick pic of about 1/2 my MEC gear but no I don't reload anymore. NOT. I can assure you if there was a penny to be saved I would still be reloading 12 and 20ga lead for targets but not today with a bag of lead selling here for 49.99 vs 15.00 nine years ago_OH yes do you reload???
Have a good one and break them all.
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I'm fairly new to skeet and trap and have fired less than 1000 shells. My last two flats of 12ga where Federal Top Gun and I recently got a flat of AA's. After firing off half the flat of AA's I have noticed absolutely no change in my average hits. The hulls are much nicer and don't stick in the chamber like the Top Guns do every 100 shells or so and they are much better for reloading (buckshot and slugs for me) but other than that I notice zero difference.

I know a couple people who used to compete in skeet and they said unless you are in a competition that requires a specific type of load use whatever is cheapest; there isn't a difference except for reloadability.

Buying factory shot ($50/25lbs here in Ottawa) makes it less expensive to buy flats of factory shells but it can make sense if you have a cheaper source for lead. I picked up 25lbs of lead once for $30 from a guy who had a shotmaker in his garage and a private source for free lead. The shot was all mismatched sizes and lots had air bubbles visible or where oblong. I ended up melting it down for buckshot and slugs since at the time I was in between wheel weight sources. If the shot was good though it would have been cheaper to reload target load than buying factory ammo.
 
Yes of course I reload, if I didn't I'd keep my mouth shut in a reloading forum. I load everythIng except .410 and 28ga. I load my 12ga competition and practice loads the same. That's one of best things about reloading, you don't have to change your loads. With 10ga it saves a bundle of moola and I can make target loads too.

I don't think we will agree on the 20ga issue though. In my end of the world there is a very clear economic advantage to reloading in 20.
 
ShawnM said:
Yes of course I reload, if I didn't I'd keep my mouth shut in a reloading forum. I load everythIng except .410 and 28ga. I load my 12ga competition and practice loads the same. That's one of best things about reloading, you don't have to change your loads. With 10ga it saves a bundle of moola and I can make target loads too.

I don't think we will agree on the 20ga issue though. In my end of the world there is a very clear economic advantage to reloading in 20.
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It is Ok for us not to agree. Think of how boring the world would be if we all did. I reloaded many 20 over the years but living here now when you do the math it is not worth it any more unless I am doing some copper plated hunting loads of 4 or 6.
80% of my shooting is 28ga now even in trap, 870 wingmaster for all of it. Having a ball and even breaking the odd target.
A guy that reloads 10ga cannot be that bad in my books.;) I pretty well stick now to high speed rsi duplex loads they seem to pattern the best.Mostly BBB over BB and T over BBB. Also do some TT which are 60 yard killers. Great for a third shot on geese over decoys or high snow geese.
Take care and keep pulling the handles:cheers:
 
reloading slugs and buck is where there big savings are.

OP your wad and powder prices are a bit on the high side

I dont think you will load much higher quality shells that will result in more hits, the time investment is not worth it
 
ShawnM said:
That's actually not true... IF you are comparing ammo for target you can't compare the cheapest Chinese made junk you find on sale for $40/flat. You need to compare it with the type of ammunution you are actually producing. i.e. if you're loading with WAA12 wads in AA hulls then compare it to actual AA's from a retailer. In Calgary they are going for $100/flat so you are actually saving quite a bit of money.
Click to expand...

I have never seen a flat for either $40 or $100

most are $60-$70
 
FWIW, I just bought two cases (250 per) at Wholesale in Regina, of Winchester 20 ga. Super Target 7 1/2 for $62.00 + tax, about $68 per case.
 
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