Why the bullet size?

[Longwalker]

After shooting over 100 head of big game, I have come to like the big relatively slow bullets from cartridges like the .35 Whelen. They kill very efficiently, waste little meat, and allow a competent hunter to take shots on big stuff like elk and moose that a lesser caliber would not have sufficient penetration / lethality to reliably perform.

I seldom take head shots, since it is too common for the animal to move its head even when the shooter is close and steady. I have also seen standard cup and core 150 grain .308" bullets stop dead in the shoulder joint of a calf elk, and fail to reach the vitals. And in the same spot with the same result in a bull moose. I am unimpressed with the paper accuracy and ballistics numbers of small / fast bullets on big game. Performance IN the game is what matters to me - and that has led me to premium bullets & heavy for caliber bullets in fast cartridges, or bigger diameter and fairly hefty bullets in the medium bores.

Like any good bow hunter, my rifle hunting is about taking clean, ethical shots only and passing up the rest. Large, heavy and well constructed bullets allow me to take more of the shots that I feel confident taking - especially when hunting animals bigger than deer!

 

[ivo]

The average hunter probably has 3 guns, .22, 12 ga shotgun and big game rifle. Most of us here on Gunnutz are not the "average" hunter.

Having said that, this "average" hunter probably shoots his one big game rifle in one of half a dozen calibres(.243 Win, .308Win, 30-06 sprg, .270win, 7mm Rem, .300 Win Mag). This weather he is hunting antelope, deer, bear, elk, moose....he uses his one rifle.

From a Gunnutz perspective, most of us have many calibres for specific types of hunting or shooting. I see no reason to hunt moose with my .260AI or antelope with my .338 Lapua. Some other people enjoy the flavor of the week with their ultramags, shortmags... and so on. Thats great because most of these calibres kill our game animals all the same.

At the end of the day, each calibre has its own intricacies which are made appeal to someone for some purpose.

 

[antiqueguy]

I'm one of those guys who now uses a 300WM for all big game including deer. An A-bolt. Out of all the rifles I have, it is my go to gun and I have the utmost in confidence in it. I've never noticed any more meat damage from it than any other rifle I've used. While I don't need the power it offers to knock a deer down, I've sure made good use of the extra range it provides.

i can guess you dont butcher your own game animals have not gotten bullet proof

many pople use these super fast cals because they want a kill shot if they miss the right spot or cant get a good shot well its plain and simple dont miss/wait for a good shot

 

[Dogleg]

You could do a lot worse than useing a .300 for everything.

 

[c-fbmi]

Are you saying that as an archer you only take HEAD shots? Of coarse not, and neither should you as a rifle shooter. The same kill zone applies to rifle hunting as it does to archery, only you can do it out to 400 mtrs and farther (with the appropriate practice) instead of 40 mtrs. As a successful archer you have a good knowledge of where to place your arrow for a good, clean, humane kill, a bullet in the same region does the same thing.
Why bigger bullets? Would you hunt bison or polar bear with a 350 gn arrow with a 1 1/4" mechanical broadhead, which will zip right through a deer and kill it stone dead? I won't, I used a 93 lb bow and weighted 650 gn arrows with a 1 3/4" 2 blade + insert conventional broad head for polar bear and should have used the same for musk ox but didn't and learned a valuable lesson. Rifle is the same you need to match bullet weight and penetration to the game being hunted. Bigger, tougher, heavier boned animals require bigger, tougher bullets and heavier cut-on-contact razor heads and arrows. Simple physics and common sense really.

 

[emerson]

i can guess you dont butcher your own game animals have not gotten bullet proof

many pople use these super fast cals because they want a kill shot if they miss the right spot or cant get a good shot well its plain and simple dont miss/wait for a good shot

Meat damage has more to do with bullet construction than velocity. SSTs blow up, GMXs stay together, same weight and bc. Yes, personal experience. Of course GMXs cost $1/bullet, while SSTs are more like $0.50, (just the projectile). Perhaps the world of hunting is bigger than southern Ont. Just sayin....

 

[BigUglyMan]

You're from Manitoba so I'll go slowly...

Because. That's why.

 

[antiqueguy]

Meat damage has more to do with bullet construction than velocity. SSTs blow up, GMXs stay together, same weight and bc. Yes, personal experience. Of course GMXs cost $1/bullet, while SSTs are more like $0.50, (just the projectile). Perhaps the world of hunting is bigger than southern Ont. Just sayin....

i mainly hunt up north but its ballistics that it comes down to sure bullet construction has something to do with it but velocity has alot to do with it.

like i said above people tund to use bigger cals to compansate for bad angles and bad shot placement just wait and dont pull the shot (bigger cals and new hunters dont mix very well).

i hunt deer with my .303 cast reloads with a soft nose cast. witch are just pushing 1400fps but they pack a punch and i can shoot them into clover leafs at 50 yards and about 2" at 100 yards(eyes cant see well at that range)

for moose my new gun is a 9.3x57 that packs a punch with a low velocity and with almost no recoil and on deer sized game it seems to leave about a fist size exit with the right bullet but next to no blood shot or jello meat aroud it

 

[Northman999]

Just looking for opinion, why people shoot what they do. I hunted archery for years, and was taught if you can't make a sure kill don't take the shot, which carried over to rifle, so I've never felt the need for a large caliber. My belief, minimum waste, place the shot with surgical precision. I am not a sniper, but I strive. 250 gr or 90 gr in the ear end result ?

People hunt with larger cartridges because the world isn't a perfect place.

If it was, we would all hunt with a single shot .22, and bring only one bullet when we go out.

Honestly, I get the feeling from your post that you don't actually have that much hunting experience at all.

 

[Thislilfishy]

Personal preference. It's that simple. If you use a 338win for deer you get a bunch of guys saying that's too much. If you are using a .243 you get the same amount of guys saying that's inadequate. Size doesn't matter if you know how to use what you have.

That's what she said....sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Freyr_255]

Start this again. When I started hunting here in Manitoba a 30 cal. 180 gr was huge, and there was moose, bear and caribou then, and now a days its like its a competition to see who can throw the biggest chunk lead at a whitetail.

Because I can kill those cleanly from pretty much any angle including an ass shot(not that I would) out to around 200m. Following that tracking/retrieving wounded/dying game is a ##### which is generally mitigated by a high energy bullet due to more damage and the ability to quarter shot an animal in the shoulder. Having something drop where it stands is much nicer than it running 50m into thick brush or a ravine and then dying.

 

[joe-nwt]

i can guess you dont butcher your own game animals have not gotten bullet proof

many pople use these super fast cals because they want a kill shot if they miss the right spot or cant get a good shot well its plain and simple dont miss/wait for a good shot

Apparently you already know all about the animals I've knocked down and even better; you know everything about all the hunters that shoot with something other than what you deem to be suitable.

So I guess all that's left is

 

[c-fbmi]

I have a question, it is somewhat off post but not too far as the OP did say something about the least damage or waste. So here's the question......What is all this concern about a little blood shocked meat? Are a bunch of you running wild game delis and make your living off what you shoot? If a person is subsistence hunting then I agree pop the first doe/cow in the ear and get to eating, but let's face it that is about 1% of the guys on here. I purposely try to take out one or both front shoulders and anchor an animal right where it stands and make a fast humane kill as well as bleed out the meat which a head shot does not do. If in doing so I lose 10-20 lbs of meat I really don't give a flying rats a$$. I'm thinking that too many are more worried about meat loss and less about a fast decisive clean kill.
IF you are truly concerned about that 10-20 lbs of meat, and it means the difference whether you eat this winter or not then go shoot another deer/moose/elk/bear/caribou or get a better job.
Like the old saying goes "You can't make an omlette, without breaking some eggs"

 

[antiqueguy]

I have a question, it is somewhat off post but not too far as the OP did say something about the least damage or waste. So here's the question......What is all this concern about a little blood shocked meat? Are a bunch of you running wild game delis and make your living off what you shoot? If a person is subsistence hunting then I agree pop the first doe/cow in the ear and get to eating, but let's face it that is about 1% of the guys on here. I purposely try to take out one or both front shoulders and anchor an animal right where it stands and make a fast humane kill as well as bleed out the meat which a head shot does not do. If in doing so I lose 10-20 lbs of meat I really don't give a flying rats a$$. I'm thinking that too many are more worried about meat loss and less about a fast decisive clean kill.
IF you are truly concerned about that 10-20 lbs of meat, and it means the difference whether you eat this winter or not then go shoot another deer/moose/elk/bear/caribou or get a better job.
Like the old saying goes "You can't make an omlette, without breaking some eggs"

no the point is people seem to be thinking now that game has some how evolved into a armored beast

ive never had a deer run more then 30 yards i take a hart/lung shot(i hit the hart almost every time because i wait for the shot)

ive only once though about getting a big cal hunting rifle that was a .375 H&H for africa but i found a gun i could not pass up and my africa plan was off

ok a .223 will kill a deer clean a .303 will take any big game in north america and it has

ive seen new hunters that thought they needed a .300 winmag for deer

use what you can shoot good as long as its legal and your patient use it but do use some common sesnse like atleast use a good bullet with a slow expanding bullet not something that explodes on impact(not with explsives but from a thin jacketed varmint bullet)

 

[the spank]

I shoot what I was given with the rifle when it was handed down to me. No need to change, I have a lifetime supply for the little I use the gun. 348 Win... 200 grain silvertip

 

[Suka]

Okay, OP, here's the deal. People have been shooting game with 45/70's since the 1800's, and people have been shooting game with things like 340wby's since guys like Elmer Keith,..........well, for decades.
Difference is the internet. Simple fact is, no one told you about it and you didn't bother to look for the info. Don't mean that to sound so snarky, I remember thinking a .270 was a, "big" gun, till I met a local guy who shot a 340wby.

I can remember when I was a kid. Most local guys hunted deer with .270's, and once every 5 yrs took that same 270, loaded up some 150gr's and went to the hills to scare some elk. (that was before calgarians had paved roads to wmu402 and horses were needed past the gap)

The guys that started hunting sheep started gravitating to 7mms. After all, it's a darn good sheep cartridge, and an adequate(IMO, so don't freak), albeit marginally better than a .270 elk cartridge.

Personally, I started out with a 303 bought for 17.00 at an auction when I was 13. (yes, i'm that old) It's a good cartridge, close to an '06, but far, far away in other respects. (incidentally, it's been stated that the 303 has killed more african game than any other cartridge, it's also been stated that the 303 has wounded more african game than any other cartridge.)

My first new gun was a .243 which I've killed quite frankly more deer/antelope than you would believe. But, that .243 has limits. IMO if you can't shoot a running wt in the heart with it, you shouldn't be hunting with it. (the .22 for a moose crowd can just suck it).

I bought a 300wm as from my research it was the best elk round that was still a common calibre at the time. I still feel that way.

I bought a blr in 30-06 because if you look at ballistic charts it's by far the best close range brush moose gun there is when pushing a 220gr lead at 2550fps.
I shot my first moose 4 times in the heart with that '06, came home and bought a blr in 450 marlin. The moose don't get up now.

My dad always told me, "Never pick up your brass when hunting moose. If you do, you'll never see the moose again".

I'm a firm believer in the best tool for the job. For me it's part of the hunt planning. I enjoy shooting, I enjoy researching loads, I enjoy testing different loads/calibres/bullet manufacturers, and I love hunting. I just like to be there. I've hunted many years and chosen not to take an animal, despite having numerous opportunities.

Is bigger always better? No. I'll use a .270 for antelope. I'd love a 340 for elk in the foothills of Ab. For calling moose I'll keep my 450, thanks, and if it was in the budget I'd love one of those lever monsters they're making in the US, what do they call it, the 50 alaskan?

So, ya, you can kill a deer just as dead with your 3030 as I can with my 450. Difference is, I'll do it better.

 

[Dogleg]

I find some real advantages from caliber to caliber shooting in the wind. A couple days ago I was plinking away at my range, knocking the crap out of my 12" 500 yard plate with various hunting rifles. Lots of fun, esp when you start with 300 rounds.

The calibers weren't particularly unusual, a 30-06 with 165s, a .300 Win with 180 Ballistic tips, and a .270 Weatherby with 130 TSXS. I had my .338 Edge along, though its largely a waste of ammo shooting it so close. The Mark 4 doubles as spotting scope.


All the rifles were plenty accurate enough, but the wind was swirlling giveing everything from 4 through 8 o'clock and gusting a bit. Flags help.

The 30-06 required anything from 6 inches to a foot of windage for center hits, just as likely to be on the left side as the right. Conclusion? If that 12" represents the kill zone you had best be doing a lot of things right. If you held left and the wind switched the results could be pretty bad. Hold left and the wind dropped or swung from full to 1/2 force, not as bad but still a miss.

The .270 Roy and .300 made things quite easy, though neither shoots anywhere as good as that little 30-06 Cooper. For the most part a center hold was still a hit somewhere no matter what the wind did. Shadeing a bit left or right of center certainly isn't rocket science, but honestly if you didn't even know that bullets drifted in the wind you would have hit as many as I did that day. Conclusion? You can get a lot of free talent just by chooseing your tools.

For fun I dialled 8.75 minutes into the 'edge and banged 3 shots into a paper target at the same 500 yards. Didn't bother with windage at all. Conclusion? For some combinations 500 yards really is a joke.

 

[c-fbmi]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/dogleg1/DSCF0045.jpg[/IMG]

Conclusion? For some combinations 500 yards really is a joke.

Nice shooting, but then I would expect no less. OK enlighten me, as I'm too lazy and tired to look it up what is a 338 edge. I was told it's a 375 RUM necked down and blown out, yes?

Oh oh gonna be a lot of dead "gophers" laying around Oz come August I fear.

 

[Eagleye]

I believe it is the 300 RUM necked up to 338 diameter.
The 338 Ultramag case is slightly shorter to the shoulder, thuis has a bit less capacity than does the edge.
Eagleye.

 

[c-fbmi]

I believe it is the 300 RUM necked up to 338 diameter.
The 338 Ultramag case is slightly shorter to the shoulder, thuis has a bit less capacity than does the edge.
Eagleye.

I think that would amount to about the same thing, no?