Which one should I get?
- Thread starter michael2258
- Start date
F22_RaptoR
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, Alberta
Personally I like the grip size and shape of the Swiss rifles more (you can even go crazy and get a Karl Nills grip!), but I DO like AR15 type stocks, however The Shooting Edge has these folding adapters:
so you can use an AR15 telescoping stock. That guy and a Magpul CTR would be VERY sweet
(just a link because the picture is big)
http://theshootingedge.com/store/images/product_images/6070.jpg
- Location
- big sky country
No love for the Tavor anymore on CGN?
Tavors are damn fun, they are just not in a league with the Swiss Arms. The Tavor I shot had a horrendously bad trigger.
I'm not a Swiss Arms fan... To long in the non restricted version which also means more front heavy than I would enjoy. Sorry SA fans. I quite like the tavor, but will make a more elegant suggestion... Get yourself a FN FS2000 and have it re-barrelled to Non-Restricted.
My 2c
My 2c
canucklehead
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Non-restricted FS2000. Please no more offers to purchase it! It's not for sale!!!
Please no more offers to purchase it! It's not for sale!!!
- Location
- big sky country
Hey what ever floats your boat brother. You'll get no push back from me over your preferences.
Hows the trigger on your Tavor?
Tavor trigger is heavy but easy to get used to. trigger on the FS2K is superior...not as good as the RFB but pretty nice. I did mine up to wear the original FN brake and it takes a really keen eye to tell it apart from the restricted version.
canucklehead
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I can't imagine a trigger worse than the FS2000, but from what I hear, the Tavor's sucks even MORE!
No complaints about the FS2000 other than tougher mag changes (compared to AR). Not really an issue in my shooting sessions. I replaced the charging handle one made from machined aluminum, so I can 'HK slap' all day if I want (I don't, but billet parts are sweet)Perfect bush plinking gun! Second choice is Swiss Arms flattop with decent rugged mid-magnification optics. Like a 2.5-10 Nightforce.
The thing I've never liked about the Tavor is the LH bolt. I'm a lefty, but the non-ambi function means none of my friends/family can ever shoot my gun! Might not matter to you, but that's been a deal killer for me.
Oh and the tri-rail capability on the FS2000 is cool, if that floats your boat. I found the tri-rail to be VERY heavy (think like over 1lb) and really kills the balance offhand. If you only range shoot from a bench, the addition of a Larue LT706 bipod can make for a pretty fun range toy. I can swap the tri-rail for the standard forend (more comfy than it looks!) in about 10 seconds. Kinda a cool combo I guess.
No complaints about the FS2000 other than tougher mag changes (compared to AR). Not really an issue in my shooting sessions. I replaced the charging handle one made from machined aluminum, so I can 'HK slap' all day if I want (I don't, but billet parts are sweet
)Perfect bush plinking gun! Second choice is Swiss Arms flattop with decent rugged mid-magnification optics. Like a 2.5-10 Nightforce.The thing I've never liked about the Tavor is the LH bolt. I'm a lefty, but the non-ambi function means none of my friends/family can ever shoot my gun! Might not matter to you, but that's been a deal killer for me.
Oh and the tri-rail capability on the FS2000 is cool, if that floats your boat. I found the tri-rail to be VERY heavy (think like over 1lb) and really kills the balance offhand. If you only range shoot from a bench, the addition of a Larue LT706 bipod can make for a pretty fun range toy. I can swap the tri-rail for the standard forend (more comfy than it looks!) in about 10 seconds. Kinda a cool combo I guess.
In the high end, NR black rifle market, the Swiss Arms rifles are pretty much IT. You could also get a non-restricted ACR (Factory one) but for the same $3k ish as the Swiss, you're getting half the rifle. Watches and Guns are what Switzerland does best.
F22_RaptoR
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, Alberta
It's more training than that it sucks. The swiss style mag release is much stronger than an AR15 release. Besides, that since I use a dump pouch (or ANYone whom uses a dump pouch) I want control of my magazine right until it's secure in the dump pouch, before I get a new one inserted into the gun. In this way I can have full control on the weapon with my firing hand and use my off hand to disengage the magazine and remove it. As my first mag is a double mag, because I have a solid grip on the mag anyways its also quicker than reaching with your pointer finger to dump the mag.
My 3-gun primary is my USC-UMP conversion, which has a paddle mag release.
If you're in a home defense situation (as I'm not going to say combat, the guys whom do go into combat know exactly what they want to do) if you have to do a mag change you're pretty much toast anyways...
If you're dumping your mags on the ground, you will find out very quick how stuff gets lost. Doing 3-gun stuff, all the guys watching get to point and laugh as you scamper on the ground searching for a mag
(i have been the recipient of this a couple times)As FOR combat, the 2 guys I know that went to Afghanistan said it was bad juju to leave ANYTHING on the ground for an enemy to use. A single 5.56 round will sure enough get scrounged up and used as part of some damn IED...
Besides, I've seen how quick a mag change can go in a Swiss Arms rifle, and I'd say with enough training you can easily be just as fast with a Swiss Arms as an AR15.
As F22 pointed out, its different than what most are used to (Ar15) but its not the worst setup. Bolt release shouldn't be used on any firearm but that's a training issue. The mag release isn't ideal but its workable. The charge handle is another one that isn't ideal but is workable. Watch any videos of competent guys running an AK or VZ. Reloads are fast and running the CH is smooth.
TDC
Hmmmmmmm, I wonder if you can do an "Israelie mag change" with a Swiss Arms.....
I'll have to try that on mine once I get back from work. The mag release on the swiss might not be long enough. But if it works, its fast!
Worst? Maybe no, but nowhere near the best.
I disagree on the bolt-stop, it should be easily manipulated and designed to be used with the least fine motor skills possible. Even better if it can be done with the dominant hand without taking it from the grip.
Running that CH with an optic its like running an auto-loading SG with optics, awkward. Try it prone, even worse. Perhaps if they had the foresight to allow the CH to be reconfigured to the left side it would be useable.
For every fast guy running one of those platforms there are a dozen guys faster with an AR. Look at the big 3gun shoots in the US.
-Grant
Three gun or any other competition isn't what the Swiss or AR were designed for, they're service rifles. The minute time saved by executing a reload with the BC is not worth the risk of not chambering a round at all. BC's require fine motor skills and don't guarantee a charged rifle. The CH does.
As for optics and the CH, I agree, its not a great setup but its doable with a little practice and some minor changes to your manual of arms. Keep in mind, the Swiss was designed for their military who are not issued optics. For a STANDARD SERVICE RIFLE it is bar none the best option out there. For competition it has issues.
TDC
I fail to see how using the BC creates any less likelyhood of stripping a round vice using the CH?
Moreover using the BC on an AR platform has less likelyhood of the bolt not fully returning to battery. Although depending on which drills you follow this is ensured through the use of the forward assist.
I also fail to see how hitting the BC on an AR requires any form of fine motor skills when it can be done with any flat part of the entire arm? Whereas working an off-side CH requires either a vision blocking reach over, or a heavy offside tilt of the weapon.
They are definitely quality rifles, but they score very low on useability in my mind. Perhaps slightly ahead of most bull-pups but without the benefit of a small package.
-Grant
michael2258
Member
- Location
- St. Kitts Ontario
Seems most like the swiss arms. why is that? and why are they so long? what about an Bushmaster ACR can i get one of them unresticted or is that just to hard.
no offence to the tavor supporters, i sure you have your reasons for loving it, but it kinda looks like a gun Darth Vader would use to equip his storm troopers.
no offence to the tavor supporters, i sure you have your reasons for loving it, but it kinda looks like a gun Darth Vader would use to equip his storm troopers.
