338 federal

c-fbmi said:
Like I said this was NOT exhaustive research, I have found however, over the years, that the Speer flat base spitzer bullet is totally interchangable with the Nosler Part and this is why I chose this manual for comparison.
Like I said I think this is a pretty good representation of the 3 cartridges. I also have it on good authority, from a couple of the long range 308 boys,that with the new wonder powders they are driving the 208 gn Amax at nearly 2700 fps, now that really changes the equation don't it.

In your comparison you assume that the Fed 308 load would be used for comparison, there are sooo many factory 308 loads that I'm sure I could find one to further my arguement. There are no such options for 338 Fed though are there? And yes there are so many variables from one rifle to another and one batch of powder to another and one chrono to another etc....etc......etc. I was speaking in general terms using published data to compare the 3. There will always be differences in manuals but there are certainly as many commonalities which show the geneal trends and velocity ranges for any given bullet weight in any given caliber.

My entire point was that the 338 Fed is not significantly better, if at all, than the 308 and nowhere near as good as the 358 Win or 350 RM to justify it's existance and I believe I made my point and so did you for me. "far out powered the 308", 300 ft/lbs of energy at 200 yds, with your selected comparison, is the only difference? I certainly don't see a gaping chasm that needs filling and I noticed you completely avoided the 358 Win.
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So a 308 is better because of the huge selection of loads offered and the 338 Fed does not have as much selection. And the 358 Win is better because?? Ammo is next to impossible to find. (that's why I'm reloading 358 for my buddy) And the drop on a 358 at 300 + yards just gets silly.

I was just comparing what I thought was apples to apples. Both Nosler Partition in a factory load you can buy off the shelf. The 338 hits with 300 ft lbs more at 200 yards according to those numbers. Is it worth it? To me it is not, but I can't imagine how you can say it offers no advantage. MY 338 Win mag in the same Fed cartrige 210 gr Partition ony has about 400 ft lbs more energy at 200 yards than the 338 Fed. By your logic my 338 Win mag is no advantage over the 338 Fed:p Too me you have picked out three calibers that all fit their niche and selected the middle of the road an deamed it useless for some reason. If you want to start comparing reloads the debate would go on till the end of time.
 
c-fbmi said:
No listing for 200 for 308 in current Nosler Manual so I went to my Speer #11

308 Win

200 gn max 2518 fps BC .481 (this IS for the Part) SD .301

.
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Hmmmmm. My Speers #14 shows a 200gr Spitz at 2416 fps. Fastest load I could find. Strange! This isn't a cheap shot. I'm saying that is really strange! 338 Fed 200 gr spitz 2598 fps with 4 grains more of the same powder( RL 15) You can come to your own conclusion. Too me they have more poop!
 
bearkilr said:
Maybe a better comparison would be 338 Federal & 338-06? Or does that make too much sense.......
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What would the point of that be? We already know the bigger case will contain more powder and launch the bullet faster.

Instead of all the ballistic masturbation, we should just focus on what the .338 Fed can do- fulfill an "all around" hunting cartridge role very well, in a short action with no muss, fuss or great recoil.
 
g-manz35 said:
Hmmmmm. My Speers #14 shows a 200gr Spitz at 2416 fps. Fastest load I could find. Strange! This isn't a cheap shot. I'm saying that is really strange! 338 Fed 200 gr spitz 2598 fps with 4 grains more of the same powder( RL 15) You can come to your own conclusion. Too me they have more poop!
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I suspect you haven't been loading long enough to have a Speer #11 manual:p.........However if you go to another expert on the subject..Bob Hagel's "Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter" he lists 4 separate loads for the 308-200 gn over 2500 and one at 2565 fps. Speer #8 shows a load for 200 gn 308 at 2510 fps as well............If you want to "cherry pick" data, best do your research.
As far as the 338 Fed and 358 Win goes, go to your latest Nosler manual and tell me the 225 338 Fed shoots flatter than the 225 358 Win...best do some research.

Just for those of you reading this debate, to put things in prespective for you, my right jab hits with more than 300 ft/lbs of energy.
 
c-fbmi said:
I suspect you haven't been loading long enough to have a Speer #11 manual:p.........However if you go to another expert on the subject..Bob Hagel's "Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter" he lists 4 separate loads for the 308-200 gn over 2500 and one at 2565 fps. Speer #8 shows a load for 200 gn 308 at 2510 fps as well............If you want to "cherry pick" data, best do your research.
As far as the 338 Fed and 358 Win goes, go to your latest Nosler manual and tell me the 225 338 Fed shoots flatter than the 225 358 Win...best do some research.

Just for those of you reading this debate, to put things in prespective for you, my right jab hits with more than 300 ft/lbs of energy.
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Really! You are back to the reloading manuals again. And you are somehow defying that laws of physics! Genius! Many manuals when compared to other manuals will differ by many grains of powder and hundreds of feet per second. For example Your Speers #11 and my #14 differ by 100 fps. I have heard of some manuals having a starting load be the same as a max load from another manual (one was a LEE) Yet you are still using this as your reference for this argument. At least use info from the same book. That would give your argument a bit of credabillity. I'll give you one thing you sure got me beat when it comes to "cherry picking" your info. I am simply going to one web site or using one book and pulling the info out of it. Like I said comparing apples to apples.

When comparing bullets of the same weight the larger dia bullet will have a lower SD and therefore produce more ft lbs of energy at the muzzle, but will diminish quicker over a distance. If you want to argue adgainst it be my guest, but you are arguing adgainst physics.
 
bearkilr said:
Something the 308 has done for decades. ;)
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And so have dozens of cartridges, but that's largely irrelevant unless all we want to do is state the obvious.

The 338 fed is able to efficiently use heavier bullets, which is why the 3006 is a closer match. The 308 struggles a bit with heavier bullets.
 
Gatehouse said:
And so have dozens of cartridges, but that's largely irrelevant unless all we want to do is state the obvious.

The 338 fed is able to efficiently use heavier bullets, which is why the 3006 is a closer match. The 308 struggles a bit with heavier bullets.
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Don't go bad mouthing the 308. The reloading manuals will come out again and show that the 308 is far superior to the 06 in every way.

For the record. I do think the 338 Fed is a bit redundant, but no worse than many other offerings (300 WSM comes to mind). The point is guns are fun and if you want something different "Fill your boots" other wise we would all be shooting 308s or 30-06 or whatever and life would be pretty boring.
 
Gatehouse said:
The .338-08/Fed shouldn't be compared to a .338 WM any more than a .308 should be compared to a .300 magnum.

The 338 Fed should really compared to a 30-06,as it fills the same niche as"all around hunting cartridge" as a30-06 does.

The 338 Fed is a hunting cartridge. It's not a long range uber tactical sniper cartridge. It will excel where other "all around" hunting cartridges also excel, which is 0-350 yards. You know, the distance 90% of game is shot.

I doubt it will ever be really popular, which is a shame. It's probably one of the more practical hunting cartridges out there.
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Sounds reasonable.
 
None of this matters anyways because the 7 short mags are in fact the be all end all in the name of big game s**t stompers, all others, including the 30 and 33 cal mags are just eye-candy.
 
g-manz35 said:
Don't go bad mouthing the 308. The reloading manuals will come out again and show that the 308 is far superior to the 06 in every way.
For the record. I do think the 338 Fed is a bit redundant, but no worse than many other offerings (300 WSM comes to mind). The point is guns are fun and if you want something different "Fill your boots" other wise we would all be shooting 308s or 30-06 or whatever and life would be pretty boring.
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Now that's just being facetious............most of the rest of what you say I agree with.
The 300 WSM however does occupy a niche not shared by any other cartridge and that being the most powerful 30 cal in a short action on the market, now or ever.
Sorry for the delay in responding I actually went to the range and spent 3 1/2 hrs shooting, I hope this hasn't caused you to lose your debating momentum :p:D
As far as "cherry picking" goes you have made my point exactly, you cannot just use one point of reference, you should use as many as you can to gain an understanding of internal and external ballistics and the differences between individual rifles used to develop loads. No one company or manual is right or wrong, I use a cross section of the dozens of manuals I have, to determine best 2 or 3 powders and starting loads and sometimes bullet weight, when working with a new cartridge. This proceedure I have used many, many times when working with wildcats. I choose multiple loads from a cartridge with less powder capacity and then the same with a cartridge with greater capacity and run the averages. It works most times with some surprizes which keep it interesting.
 
not by much, there is the very odd exception but regardless...the saum dont give up much. What it does afford though is more mag space at the cost of 100fps
 
tylerjwitty said:
never lacked mag space. the diffence in brass length is .065 thou.
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You've also never used a short action with a WSM case, nor have you loaded said cases with sleek bullets. Even Noslers/Hornadys profile in a SAUM case is more appealing than WSM for obvious reasons....

WSMtoSAUMComparo.jpg



Of course if you get a properly throated chamber in the WSM then obviously we have a winner.

Merely stirring the pot.
 
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