Bought new rifle, Old Sako AV in 9.3 X 300 WM - 2967 FPS with 286 NPs

Brass limitations

I recall an article in some gun rag about #### Casull of Freedom Arms developing a rifle/cartridge combo that used a case with a steel head and web and the rest of the case was made of brass. He ran the pressure up to 120,000 Psi in his rifle. I don't know what ever came of outfit, or if #### is still around.
 
JJ-65 said:
I recall an article in some gun rag about #### Casull of Freedom Arms developing a rifle/cartridge combo that used a case with a steel head and web and the rest of the case was made of brass. He ran the pressure up to 120,000 Psi in his rifle. I don't know what ever came of outfit, or if #### is still around.
Click to expand...

I remember the article...IIRC they were called "steel heads"...original eh?:rolleyes:...he got 300 Wby velocities in a 30-06 Ruger #1....:eek:
 
Back in the pre-computer days, it was 'Handloaders Digest' for our hard core reloading kit.
Those 'Steel Head' cases were five bucks apiece, and they got me to a'twitching .... with dreams of ballistic pioneer experimentation, ala P.O. Ackley ... so they surely did. .338/06AI was the plan.

Alas, too late, he cried .... the border is long since closed.

If a knowledgable fellow chooses to up pressure till pockets open, well, he'll be buying new brass before long(unless steel heads;)) ... he knows that, and accepts the costs, and risks, involved for the benefits received.

Ever notice how many racers reload?, and vice versa?. :rockOn:
 
how about getting some pressure testing equipment and see whether you are on thin ice or solid ground? this would contribute useful knowledge.
 
MiG25 said:
how about getting some pressure testing equipment and see whether you are on thin ice or solid ground? this would contribute useful knowledge.
Click to expand...

He already said a few times, he does not like "lawyer approved" SAAMI pressure. That is why we like to see what he is doing. We don't need a professor.
 
elker said:
He already said a few times, he does not like "lawyer approved" SAAMI pressure. That is why we like to see what he is doing. We don't need a professor.
Click to expand...

nothing to do with SAAMI, that has been left far behind, it would be informative to know what the pressure is.
 
MiG25 said:
nothing to do with SAAMI, that has been left far behind, it would be informative to know what the pressure is.
Click to expand...

There is little to no mysteries nowadays regarding internal ballistics. The pressure can easily be calculated.

Adding powder until somting gives stopped being cool quite a long time ago. It has been done to death and is very uninteresting.


What is even more uninteresting is a self proclaimed "rebel" and "expert" spouting off on how much powder he can add. Buying a gun off a friend and then copping loads only adds to the lack of credit. We have all seen this 1000x before.



Want to get interesting? Want to get some street credit? Build YOUR OWN GUN, post your reamer specs, measure case capacities, do some basic math, run some loads in Quick Load, get some pressure testing equipment, make your OWN loads:rolleyes:. Show us how much free bore drops pressure. Build the gun your self, take pictures, show us how you chamber and thread a bbl. Show us the research on metal fatigue for your action, and bbl, prove that it can take extremely high pressure again and again. TAKE CALCULATED RISKS.


Until then we have another lame poster that adds extra powder because his friend did it.
 
Republic of Alberta said:
Want to get interesting? Want to get some street credit? Build YOUR OWN GUN, post your reamer specs, measure case capacities, do some basic math, run some loads in Quick Load, get some pressure testing equipment, make your OWN loads:rolleyes:. Show us how much free bore drops pressure. Build the gun your self, take pictures, show us how you chamber and thread a bbl. Show us the research on metal fatigue for your action, and bbl, prove that it can take extremely high pressure again and again. TAKE CALCULATED RISKS.


Until then we have another lame poster that adds extra powder because his friend did it.
Click to expand...

A little testy this morning?
I have done all of this short, of the pressure testing equipment. I had a 30-404 imp reamer 10 years before Rem came out with the 300 RUM. I have a 9.3 X 404 shortened and imp reamer, I have a 9.3 X 68 imp reamer, I have a 22-284 reamer, I have a 30 on a shortened 300 sav I designed specifically for sillouette. I not only built the rifle, on a 788 action, I actually drilled, reamed and rifled the barrel. I have a 7mm X 68 imp reamer I have a 475 on a shortened 416 rigby reamer etc, etc, etc. I have built rifles for more widcats than you've ever heard of, and worked up loads for them. I have played with extended flash tubes, multiple flash holes, varying flash hole sizes, multiple flash holes in extended flash tubes.
I have tuned out solid copper bullets in my lathe, playing with different ogive shapes and boattails, calculating the B.Cs and frictional coefficients long before Barnes came out with the X bullet.
I have loaded cases to in excess of 100,000 cup to measure the stress on a 700 Rem action, I had to open the bolt with a hammer and pry the case off the bolt face. The action remained perfect, no set lugs, no stretch in the chamber and no thread stretch in the bbl/action. I then increased the load to see if I could get a failure, still nothing. Couldn't open the bolt, had to remove the barrel (which is tricky on a 700 with a frozen bolt). Wrecked the extractor but other than that, the action and barrel remained unscathed, no stretch or set lugs what so ever. No chamber stretch, no thread stretch.
Didn't even expand the bolt face ring, had to drill the brass out of the ejector hole and replace the ejector spring and extractor. I still have that action today, some 30 years later, on a perfectly functioning 264 WM.
These are just a couple of the exploits I have ventured into in the search for knowledge in internal and external ballistics, the list is much, much longer.
I have also hunted over most of the planet and a lot of it was done with these wildcats.
When I tell you the only limiting factor in handloading today is the brass case I know this for a FACT, 'cause "I been there and done that". I've been doing this stuff for 40 years RoA, what's your experience base? Anytime you wish to compare notes on your own experiments, just feel free to PM me. Oh ya, I forgot that would mean you would actually have to get out from in front of your keyboard and DO something !!!

But yep, I'm just "another lame poster that adds extra powder because his friend did"

May I suggest you save your critisizm until you actually know what your talking about and who you are talking to, and have more experience than I !!!!!
 
c-fbmi,

Keep us posted, and do try and get out and get some game with this rifle and let us know how it performs. Based on the velocities you posted, I suspect there won't be a lick of difference between your rifle any my 375 RUM, but pics of game killed always adds weight to the legitimacy of any wildcat.
 
Gentlemen;

Allow me to reiterate, I have only posted what I have been told by someone I consider a reliable source. I said I will work up loads and get back with the results..beyond this I have made no claims. Certainly nothing I've posted here to cause the knotted panties that some of you have.

I did shoot it last night, but the light was too low and my Oehler 35P was extremely intermittant. I will say that I ended up too conservative even with my max load (I know, I know, that's not like me) and was having scope problems so no idea about groups. My top load, only 2 of which triggered the chrono was 2889 fps with Speer 270. But I can't say this is accuate as only one screen set was activating. Bolt lift was easy and primers still as rounded as when seated, soooo......back to the loading bench. Recoil is not unpleasant but it does let you know when it goes bang. I did chrono 3 other rifles, but I think I'll post another thread regarding these.

randejuly29003.jpg

randejuly29004.jpg


The top loads are the fired cases immediately left of the loaded rounds

randejuly29002.jpg
 
Heck, you didn't have to go to all that trouble to conclude that a thin tube of brass is weaker than a steel action. Rifle manufacturers put gas vents in the rifle in case of a ruptured case, expecting that the action will stay put even if the case gives way. :)

They even proof test rifle designs to make sure they can withstand many more PSI than SAAMI pressures. Although that doesn't mean we have to always run proof loads in our rifles. ;)
 
Gatehouse said:
Heck, you didn't have to go to all that trouble to conclude that a thin tube of brass is weaker than a steel action. Rifle manufacturers put gas vents in the rifle in case of a ruptured case, expecting that the action will stay put even if the case gives way. :)

They even proof test rifle designs to make sure they can withstand many more PSI than SAAMI pressures. Although that doesn't mean we have to always run proof loads in our rifles. ;)
Click to expand...

EXACTLY...Gatehouse, you have made my point precisely. Any load that is contained within the frail brass case is done so at a fraction of the pressure these actions are designed to withstand without damage or catasrophic failure. Therefore it follows that any load where the brass is resuable 5 or 6 times or even 3 times is safe in that firearm. The pressure, whatever it may be, is not in any way damaging the rifle action or barrel (excepting normal throat wear, which is of coarse accelerated with higher pressures).
I'm glad some out there realize this. Until such time as someone out there comes up with a better material than brass for cartridges, our rifles are safe, even from me!:D And we don't have to go running around proclaiming that the sky is falling and rifles will be blown to bits or good rifles ruined from a steady diet of SAFE loads.

ya, ya, ya "every load a proof load", good one:p
 
c-fbmi said:
EXACTLY...Gatehouse, you have made my point precisely. Any load that is contained within the frail brass case is done so at a fraction of the pressure these actions are designed to withstand without damage or catasrophic failure. Therefore it follows that any load where the brass is resuable 5 or 6 times or even 3 times is safe in that firearm. The pressure, whatever it may be, is not in any way damaging the rifle action or barrel (excepting normal throat wear, which is of coarse accelerated with higher pressures).
I'm glad some out there realize this. Until such time as someone out there comes up with a better material than brass for cartridges, our rifles are safe, even from me!:D And we don't have to go running around proclaiming that the sky is falling and rifles will be blown to bits or good rifles ruined from a steady diet of SAFE loads.

ya, ya, ya "every load a proof load", good one:p
Click to expand...

Safe for awhile, anyway. Run anything at full throttle long enough and eventually something gives. :p

The other aspect is "why?" It's so easy these days to just use a cartridge with a bigger case if we desire added performance, and then we can run at lower pressures. Brass doesn't have to wear out in 3 firings, and high pressure loads like being discussed have such small real world performance gains that there really aren't really any practical advantages.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom