Tavor loading problems during competition

[the_klenzer]

I've been shooting tac rifle competitions with my Tavor and have been noticing some problems not just with mine, but others as well.

There were 3 Tavors at the match this past Sunday, and all 3 experienced mag feeding failures. All 3 were using LAR mags, iirc. 2 of 3 of us were only running 9 rounds each in them to avoid issues. The issue seemed to be, for me anyway, not slamming the mags in hard enough (since it's hard to slap them up under your arm) and then not feeding properly... but I could be wrong, and that's the question. One of the other guys says he noticed the Tavor doesn't like loading mags when there's already a round in the chamber.

Now, I've never had an issue with my Tavor from the bench... ever. These are all loading issues under stress, running, moving, firing prone, etc... when action gets a little sloppy or rushed. I do plan on practicing the hell out of mag changes to get it tight, but the other two guys having problems are definitely more experienced than me, so I doubt its just lack of practice.

Just wondering if others have had these types of problems under stress shooting situations?

 

[Gothmog]

Its the pinning of the mags to 10 rounds that contributes to these issues. I have taken to loading my mags with 9 rounds to make reloads on a closed bolt a little more reliable ... otherwise, shoot your rifle dry and reload on an open bolt. The downside to the latter strategy is making sure you are topped up before activating a moving target may be problematic.

And I ran a Tavor at the match and suffered no failures to feed whatsoever, altho I did witness it in other Tavors there, to be sure.

If I get a bit of time this weekend I will run a practice at the range to allow folks to sort out some issues and ask some questions. I see all kinds of problems developing as I RO shooters but don't always have the opportunity to advise them about it on the day of the event ... the practice days are less hectic and we can spend some time on sorting out issues.

 

[Armedsask]

Slap your mag, don't be a puss. When loading on a closed bolt, slam those mags like $2 hooker.

Or load your mags one round less.

 

[Draezin]

Slap your mag, don't be a puss. When loading on a closed bolt, slam those mags like $2 hooker.

Or load your mags one round less.

^this^

If my sister and her dainty friend who could barely pull the cocking lever on my Tavor can slam a full 10 rd mag home with one go, then I would hope a fully grown man can as well.

 

[the_klenzer]

Sorry, came back to update my post to add that I was only running 9 rounds per mag. Also running Ranger plates this time (which make a 9 round load mandatory, as they are impossibly tight with 10). Still pretty tight with 9 come to think of it. Wonder if I should try 8.... Last time I was running 10 rounds without Ranger plates and had problems then as well. Hmmm....

If my sister and her dainty friend who could barely pull the cocking lever on my Tavor can slam a full 10 rd mag home with one go, then I would hope a fully grown man can as well.

While I love the opportunity for innuendo about your sister pulling cocking levers, remember that I'm talking specifically about reloading while sprinting, prone, pinned, etc... with a timer running. Doing something at a bench is completely different than doing it under stress.

And I ran a Tavor at the match and suffered no failures to feed whatsoever, altho I did witness it in other Tavors there, to be sure.

Dave, thought you said you were having some mag problems as well that day and thats why you switched to 9? May have misheard you. Anyway, would definitely like to come out for a practice day! Lots of things that I'd like to test and tune.

 

[Gothmog]

Sorry, came back to update my post to add that I was only running 9 rounds per mag. One of the other guys was also running 9rds, not sure about the 3rd (he may chime in here).

Odd ... never had an issue with 9 rounds.

Perhaps a problem with the mags? Hopefully we'll have a chance to check it out at the range this weekend.

 

[Sinasta]

Its the pinning of the mags to 10 rounds that contributes to these issues. I have taken to loading my mags with 9 rounds to make reloads on a closed bolt a little more reliable ... otherwise, shoot your rifle dry and reload on an open bolt. The downside to the latter strategy is making sure you are topped up before activating a moving target may be problematic.

And I ran a Tavor at the match and suffered no failures to feed whatsoever, altho I did witness it in other Tavors there, to be sure.

If I get a bit of time this weekend I will run a practice at the range to allow folks to sort out some issues and ask some questions. I see all kinds of problems developing as I RO shooters but don't always have the opportunity to advise them about it on the day of the event ... the practice days are less hectic and we can spend some time on sorting out issues.

LAR mags are not pinned...

 

[Gothmog]

LAR mags are not pinned...

Sure, but they are limited to 10, and quite tightly.

Sorry for the inexact choice of words, hope it didnt cause any confusion.

It is a simlar problem to what can encounter in pinned mags in that the mags have very little play when loaded to capacity.

 

[the_klenzer]

Odd ... never had an issue with 9 rounds.

Perhaps a problem with the mags? Hopefully we'll have a chance to check it out at the range this weekend.

Think the Ranger plates could compress them even more to the point where 9 would be problematic?

Realized I'm working this weekend, argh, no practice day for me. My next day off might actually be the next TacRifle day (summer is busy season for my business).

 

[Gothmog]

Think the Ranger plates could compress them even more to the point where 9 would be problematic?

Realized I'm working this weekend, argh, no practice day for me. My next day off might actually be the next TacRifle day (summer is busy season for my business).

Ranger plate issue rings a bell ... I run the metal wedges that join two mags and thought you did the same. There was a thread discussing this issue some time ago, try the search function.

Sounds like a good starting point to begin to narrow down the issue.

 

[twyeh]

Run standard STANAG mags and you will not run into that issue, the LAR15 mags are not battle proven (commercial) and should only be deligated for range use.

 

[foxbat]

Take your LAR mags apart, and shave (a little at a time) from the bottom of the follower.
You should find that instead of having to jam that last round in, it should fit more like 10.5 rounds....they err on the side of too tight, rather than too loose......
This all stems that these mags aren't pinned, it's the follower bottoming out on the mag base.......

 

[Throttle_monkey1]

Try shaving some material from the front of the mags too. My newer LAR mags needed this to function properly

 

[Claven2]

Claven2's LAR mag routine:

1) disassemble mag and lightly file a bevel on the forward edge to prevent casing lips from haning up. (common LAR15 mag issue)
2) Toss the factory base plate in the bin and install magpul ranger plate.
3) File about 3 to 5mm from the bottom of the follower so you get a 10.5 round capacity with the ranger plate installed. Do this by trial and error until you get the right capacity - go slow, you can't put material back on.
4) Re-assemble and enjoy comparatively problem-free mags.

 

[justinchow]

2) Toss the factory base plate in the bin and install magpul ranger plate.

^^ This ^^

3) File about 3 to 5mm from the bottom of the follower so you get a 10.5 round capacity with the ranger plate installed. Do this by trial and error until you get the right capacity - go slow, you can't put material back on.

^^ And I guess this too ^^ (Since you're running Ranger plates)

But the Magpul followers are key I think, the stock ones are pretty much garbage. Note that I did have to run a number of rounds through them after, so that they started to feed smooth... but that may be an isolated case.

Run standard STANAG mags and you will not run into that issue, the LAR15 mags are not battle proven (commercial) and should only be deligated for range use.

^^ Also this ^^

I think the whole LAR15 mag thing, especially with the couplers, should be a range thing... definitely don't see end to end couplers on the battlefield. I'd just run with a PMag or something, since they're battle proven and I've never had a FTF with them, though I hear Tavor's don't like PMags...

One of the other guys says he noticed the Tavor doesn't like loading mags when there's already a round in the chamber.

I don't think this should be the case... it's a gun used for combat, you'd think they'd have expected soldiers doing tac-reloads and topping off their rifles