Heirloom rifle

[Kirk1701]

My great-grandfather owned a Winchester 92 in 44-40. My father was meant to inherit this rifle, but it never made it into his hands. I'd like to remedy this situation.

If I were to find a replacement 92, I'd certainly like my dad to be able to hunt with it if he chose to. I'm not sure a vintage 44wcf would fit the bill in that regard. I'm thinking a newer 44 magnum would work much better. I've shot a Browning 92 carbine in 44 mag and it seemed like pretty good deer medicine, i.e. a light rifle with a hard-hitting round.

Then there's the question of reloading. I understand 44wcf is a ##### to reload. The bottle-neck is weak, I've read, and the bore/chamber is often under or over sized. Where the 44 magnum is a straight case. Rifles made in 44 magnum are normally accurately sized.

But then I'm think of the heirloom status. We also have two beautiful Savage 1899s that've been handed down. It wouldn't do to replace a fine Winchester with a cheap replica in such a collection.

I'd like some opinions, if anyone has any. Perhaps one or two of you have come up against the same issue in your own family.

Or if you'd like to post pics and stories of your own heirloom rifles, that'd be fine too. I collect stories as well as firearms (and guitars).

 

[Skinny 1950]

The 44-40 is a straight wall case similar to the .45 Colt and it should be no problem re-loading for it, you could keep it real by loading black powder. The same cartridge was used in the Colt 1873 SAA and various other rifles and handguns. It might not knock over an elephant but it would work for deer.
You may have been thinking of the 30WCF which is a necked cartridge.
Why not pick up the same vintage rifle that your great-grandfather had and add it to your collection???

 

[Sharps '63]

44-40 tough to reload .... ?

One of the enduring myths about the 44-40 is that it is problematic to reload - horse feathers! One of those "common knowledge" and "... everyone knows ..." reloading stories repeated by people that don't reload the calibre.

Originals are best with .427 dia. bullets, modern repros .429 - .430.

In CAS, I shoot a Henry and a '66 in 44-40 and a pair of Taylor's '58 Remington conversions in 44-40. In our recent annual match, I shot them with BP for the first time.

My wife and I each have a B-92 and shoot .44 Spl. in them. Only way I could like 'em better is if they were in 44-40.

 

[Win 38-55]

I've been reloading the 44-40 for years. I think when I started I crumpled one or two cases because I didn't slightly flare the case mouth. Now I slightly flare the mouth, just enough to start the the base of the bullet, and I never wreck a case. I can't remember the last time I crumpled a case.

The 44-40 had a high velocity loading back in the day that will be plenty for deer under 150 yards. The original, slower load, will be fine for deer under 100 yards. The 44 Mag is definitely more powerful. Bore diameter can vary slightly on original Model 1892's.

 

[mooncoon]

If I were to find a replacement 92, I'd certainly like my dad to be able to hunt with it if he chose to. I'm not sure a vintage 44wcf would fit the bill in that regard.

I have shot a couple of deer with factory loaded 44-40 shells and the slugs did not appear to mushroom out significantly; more a case of drilling a hole through. I think the 44 magnum is a bit faster and both can probably be loaded a fair bit hotter than factory. You do want to be careful not to reload old Dominion 44-40 cases because they are balloon head and will burst with hot loads.

cheers mooncoon

 

[fingers284]

LOL It doesn't matter that they didn't mushroom, they are bigger in dia when they start than some .30 cal after mushrooming. Drain holes are same size...just that you can eat right up to the hole on the .44 one.

 

[Kirk1701]

The 44-40 is a straight wall case similar to the .45 Colt and it should be no problem re-loading for it, you could keep it real by loading black powder. The same cartridge was used in the Colt 1873 SAA and various other rifles and handguns. It might not knock over an elephant but it would work for deer.
You may have been thinking of the 30WCF which is a necked cartridge.
Why not pick up the same vintage rifle that your great-grandfather had and add it to your collection???

The 44-40 is not straight walled. It has a slight bottle neck. I'm not thinking of 30-30 either.

Well we're unsure of the exact vintage of the rifle he had. We do know to whom it currently belongs, but that owner is unwilling to sell it back to us (bastard).

But I suppose a 44-40 from about 1900-1920 would definitely put me in the ballpark.

Excellent thoughts all. Don't be afraid to post your own heirloom stories and rifles. I'd certainly like to see them.

 

[Kirk1701]

double tap

 

[mooncoon]

LOL It doesn't matter that they didn't mushroom, they are bigger in dia when they start than some .30 cal after mushrooming. Drain holes are same size...just that you can eat right up to the hole on the .44 one.

drain holes may be the same size but you do not get the surrounding area of puffy tissue from a much higher velocity projectile. I think that you will find the 44-40 with factory loads to be comparable with a muzzle loader with round ball when it comes to killing power. I am not suggesting that the caliber will not kill a deer but rather that shot placement is considerably more important than with a 30-30 or a 30-06

cheers mooncoon

 

[smellie]

Mooncoon is, of course, absolutely right: shot placement is everything.

A gunsmith friend once told me, "Everyone should own a magnum rifle; you can just miss SO much faster!" His hunting is done with a 65-year-old Peterlongo Mauser in .30-'06.

The .44-40 is a weak-kneed, obsolete, old-fashioned relic of a thing. The trajectory of the thing resembles a fastball as much as anything else. This is not a criticism or a slur; my own favourite is the .577 Snider, which has a trajectory like what you would see in a slow-pitch tournament!

However, for short-range hunting, especially in bush country, it will still put them down with one round. A LOT of old-timers put meat on the table with the .44-40, buying a box of shells every 4 or 5 years with which to feed their families.

But the thing they knew was that bullet placement is supreme.

Work with that and the .44-40 is viable today.

Hope you find your rifle, friend.
.

 

[oldiron]

Maybe if you found a nice "92", and throw in a hundred bucks, the guy would trade you your gun back? Unless he's a real A-hole. Good luck.

 

[Kirk1701]

Maybe if you found a nice "92", and throw in a hundred bucks, the guy would trade you your gun back? Unless he's a real A-hole. Good luck.

Not a bad idea.

 

[Goldenlakepete]

Many years ago a friend had a M94 Marlin in .44-40 and I had a Winchester M92, also in .44-40.

We also had the Ideal Handbook #38 which listed a load of 29 grs of 4227 with a 200 gr jacketed bullet which produced 1890 fps.

Being teenagers, we had to try it!

That load was fearsome! It was much too fast a load for the factory 200 gr bullets. They blew up on groundhogs and porcupines!

We carried those rifles/loads deer hunting but never got a chance to try them.

 

[broncoo]

i have an 1892 in 44-40 (serial places it to 1895) that has been in the family since the 30's sadly it was not well looked after by my grandfather and he removed the blueing/patina with steel wool about 50 years ago. there is however no really noticeable pitting is the steel and i keep it well oiled. i have wondered if it would futher damage the history of the gun if i were to refinish it

the internal workings are mint as is the bore. accuracy is good enough for short range bush hunting

i do load for it .427" 200grn jhp going 1650fps and some 220grn lead going about 1000fps

 

[Kirk1701]

i have an 1892 in 44-40 (serial places it to 1895) that has been in the family since the 30's sadly it was not well looked after by my grandfather and he removed the blueing/patina with steel wool about 50 years ago. there is however no really noticeable pitting is the steel and i keep it well oiled. i have wondered if it would futher damage the history of the gun if i were to refinish it

the internal workings are mint as is the bore. accuracy is good enough for short range bush hunting

i do load for it .427" 200grn jhp going 1650fps and some 220grn lead going about 1000fps

 

[Kirk1701]

Here's another question: I pretty much know what I'd pay for a modern repro 92, but can you experts give me a ballpark on what a 1910-1920-ish Winchester might run me? It'd have to be a rifle, not a carbine. Octagonal barrel is not essential, but I do like them. Shooter condition would be fine. I doubt the original rifle was in collector's shape anyway, since my great-grandpa hunted with it.

I've looked around the EE, but the prices are all over the place. Frankly I've seen better prices in gun shops.

 

[Mike Webb]

You can pick one up in my area in "shooter condition", say 20% to 40% finish remaining for around $1000. Carbines tend to run higher in price.

 

[broncoo]

 

[Kirk1701]

That's a pretty rifle! I wouldn't refinish it. I looks beautiful as is. Besides which, you'd want to use the same processes and materials they used at the time the rifle was made. That can be an expensive process.