Pistol grip 20 inch long shotguns legal? Maybe!

Tyockell18 said:
^^my 12" side by side with its cylinder bores keep the groups tight enough to do the job quite easily within 10-15 yards....

Good enough for me considering such a compact package. I think its safe to say that a 12 gauge even at 8.5 inches isn't something to sniff at.
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No doubt eh! Not if you want to keep your nose hairs....them shorties are fire breathin'...who needs buckshot?
 
I'd like to know your basis of fact that somehow 'a shotgun' is inferior to 'a handgun' somehow for home defence.

Well, true, I do not know the ballistics as it pertains to borderline impractical lengthened shotguns... though I did not suggest I knew the answer, either...

If I were in the outdoors, absolutely, I'd rather have a .45-70 gun as opposed to a shotgun, any day. The average person, with a shotgun, would shoot a charging bear beyond the killzone. So the .45-70 errs on the size of caution, prividing stopping power at longer range.

Regarding a shotgun vs. handgun for home defense... or lol, let us not bring out the far left in Canada... which like all their big gov't arguments, tells us to call 911 only...

And let's leave any threat matrix aside... that is the legal mumbo jumbo taught to Brinks & the police regarding use of lethal force, and even drawing of a weapon.

Such a home defense argument is truly situational...

Scenario 1: Home invasion / break in / you wake up / no family members hostage... My response would be a shotgun. Why? Accuracy not necessary, & 8 shot loads will make a heck of a bloody mess, but not go beyond the home.

Scenario 2: Family member at risk / engaged within the home. Those choice for defense would be a handgun.... precision would be required.

Honestly... Unless you are looking for trouble in the daytime with a flashlight in Canada... ANY home defense scenario is so absolutely remote... Nothing much more than a locked door makes any sense.

PS True, nobody in Canada has ever served time for defending their home with a firearm... by the letter of the law... home defense with a firearm has all but been outlawed in Canada, given gun store and ammo storage laws.
 
YourAreInOilCountry said:
I'd like to know your basis of fact that somehow 'a shotgun' is inferior to 'a handgun' somehow for home defence.

Well, true, I do not know the ballistics as it pertains to borderline impractical lengthened shotguns... though I did not suggest I knew the answer, either...

If I were in the outdoors, absolutely, I'd rather have a .45-70 gun as opposed to a shotgun, any day. The average person, with a shotgun, would shoot a charging bear beyond the killzone. So the .45-70 errs on the size of caution, prividing stopping power at longer range.

Regarding a shotgun vs. handgun for home defense... or lol, let us not bring out the far left in Canada... which like all their big gov't arguments, tells us to call 911 only...

And let's leave any threat matrix aside... that is the legal mumbo jumbo taught to Brinks & the police regarding use of lethal force, and even drawing of a weapon.

Such a home defense argument is truly situational...

Scenario 1: Home invasion / break in / you wake up / no family members hostage... My response would be a shotgun. Why? Accuracy not necessary, & 8 shot loads will make a heck of a bloody mess, but not go beyond the home.

Scenario 2: Family member at risk / engaged within the home. Those choice for defense would be a handgun.... precision would be required.

Honestly... Unless you are looking for trouble in the daytime with a flashlight in Canada... ANY home defense scenario is so absolutely remote... Nothing much more than a locked door makes any sense.

PS True, nobody in Canada has ever served time for defending their home with a firearm... by the letter of the law... home defense with a firearm has all but been outlawed in Canada, given gun store and ammo storage laws.
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This is what you suppose only. You are shortsighted IMO.
I could equally suppose someone like yourself with a rifle, could engage a "charging bear" at far too distant to be considered self-defence in the opinion of a conservation officer. Therefore you with your rifle would be faced with a legal dilemma before the courts perhaps.

Personally I like myself to engage in mutual conversation with persons that are open minded, with well rounded opinions often backed up with real life experiences. Other times, I find myself wasting my time completely.

the end
 
Ok Brutus,

(lotsa satire intended)... Your opinion is far superior, having killed so many bears in self defense, you stack them chest high and use 'em as body bags when defending your home.

Here in the real world, home defense is such a remote afterthought in Canada, that it truly requires so little cognitive appraisal.

However, if my home was at risk, would I truly think twice about the legal BS in Canada preventing me from defending my home with a firearm? The answer is no.

As for the bears... ok, let's no split hairs... Sure, shotgun slugs can down a charging bear... & when I originally posted, I referred to someone who wanted the shortest of shortest shotguns.... I choose .45-70, preferably handloads.....

lol, or perhaps I'd choose to get a gold panning liceense, or Trapper's, and thus be lawfully allowed to carry and big handgun for bear defense in the wild.
 
PS I'd still like to see patterning from the smallest of smallest shotguns... yes, a rifled micro shotgun shooting slugs... @ 20 feet.

To Joe average, the shot is fired sooner, rather than later. & that is why I suggested a .45-70.
 
Rosthern said:
Talking about short barreled shotguns, I read years ago about the Street Sweeper, a .12ga. 12 shot shotgun with rotary magazine that you wind up. Any way they were used in South Africa and some of them had barrels as short as 5" . A well known Edmonton military surplus store sold them brand new back in the mid 80's with a 18" barrel, back then I could have bought one wholesale for about $699.99 I have no idea what they are worth now, they are probably prohibited now.
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I seen a shooter with one at a *then legal* civilian machine gun shoot near Borden, Ontario back in the 1980's. The fellow had it loaded with 00 buckshot, and with a full magazine turned a figure 12 with the donna conda board backer into fluffy bits of papier mache at about 15 yards.

Also I got to see a Lewis Gun being fired among other fine firearms. *sigh*
 
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YourAreInOilCountry said:
PS I'd still like to see patterning from the smallest of smallest shotguns... yes, a rifled micro shotgun shooting slugs... @ 20 feet.

To Joe average, the shot is fired sooner, rather than later. & that is why I suggested a .45-70.
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I'll take some 10 & 20 yard pictures of my DLASK 8.5 with 7 or 8 shot if I get it out this weekend. It is not too bad at all considering, and probably better than you would imagine. I would not and do not hesitate to carry it in wilderness areas for bear defense with the proper slugs. If I can dig up the chrono data it was pretty good, I may just have to test it again to prove my point...lol...:D
 
YourAreInOilCountry said:
PS I'd still like to see patterning from the smallest of smallest shotguns... yes, a rifled micro shotgun shooting slugs... @ 20 feet.

To Joe average, the shot is fired sooner, rather than later. & that is why I suggested a .45-70.
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As a side note....who the hell is making short rifled barrels?????? Smooth yes, rifled...not that I know of. And at 20feet? My 8.5 will more than do the job with any shot ammo or slug.
 
YourAreInOilCountry said:
PS I'd still like to see patterning from the smallest of smallest shotguns... yes, a rifled micro shotgun shooting slugs... @ 20 feet.

To Joe average, the shot is fired sooner, rather than later. & that is why I suggested a .45-70.
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Would the "pattern" from a slug not be one big hole?:D
 
I think there are some people who would love to get a truly "sawed-off" style shotgun, I.E. A JW2000 with a wooden pistol grip, even if it was classified as a "handgun," just because it would be cool.
 
YourAreInOilCountry said:
Honestly... Unless you are looking for trouble in the daytime with a flashlight in Canada... ANY home defense scenario is so absolutely remote... Nothing much more than a locked door makes any sense.
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This is literally the most intelligent comment I've ever read on CGN regarding firearms for home defense.
 
YourAreInOilCountry said:
PS I'd still like to see patterning from the smallest of smallest shotguns... yes, a rifled micro shotgun shooting slugs... @ 20 feet.

To Joe average, the shot is fired sooner, rather than later. & that is why I suggested a .45-70.
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A 45-70 wont work with my quad, I ride my quad with motocross racers on dirt bikes, thus I have to be very fast and agile to not slow them down, having a 50bmg would be great, but equally as cumbersome as a 45-70, and remember, I have to pack this thing miles and miles out of the bush if we break down, that’s the purpose of it. So a Howitzer will not do. Hence my want of a short (lightweight) shotgun, and for bear defence you need a gun only large enough to shatter bone at close range, I prefer closer range so I don’t end up shooting a bear that is doing a "False charge" as many of them do (and I’ve had one do it to me). But thanks to the new legal info, I will suffer to be even less well armed with a 44 magnum lever action carbine 23 inches long. Sure it sucks, but it’s the only gun that nearly fits the bill and its better than the wooden spear carved from a tree. And its not for home defence, my home is a small town in southern Alberta. No break in murderers frequented this area in the last several centuries, so I limit my house defence to an angery fist shake at the cats that get into my garbage.
 
the question of legality of pistol grip shotguns with a barrel sixteen inches or shorter will get the answer from the rcmp that you have created a pistol but as can am says it has not been decided in the courts. shooting anything other than light loads in a pistol grip shotgun is the weakness because the recoil will spoil your day and accuracy with the pistol grip does not compare with a shoulder stock .
 
F-Tang said:
I think there are some people who would love to get a truly "sawed-off" style shotgun, I.E. A JW2000 with a wooden pistol grip, even if it was classified as a "handgun," just because it would be cool.
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Would be neat, but if it were classed as a 'handgun', that could bite us all in the arse.

Just like that...all non-restricted JW2000's are now restricted, due to being a variant of a 'handgun' :rolleyes:
 
farmer47 said:
the question of legality of pistol grip shotguns with a barrel sixteen inches or shorter will get the answer from the rcmp that you have created a pistol but as can am says it has not been decided in the courts. shooting anything other than light loads in a pistol grip shotgun is the weakness because the recoil will spoil your day and accuracy with the pistol grip does not compare with a shoulder stock .
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No it would be a very bad idea to build it first then tell the RC's, youre better to have something in writing first, and that requires courts as no RC will stick his neck out for something as grey as this.
Actually the recoil is nothing to write home about. try shooting your shotgun with 3" magnums from the hip. Your arm absorbs the recoil better than your shoulder and with a deal less pain. shorter barrels lessen this even more. and if the gun is heavy that reduces it more so, semi-auto again even more so. I can shoot my Dominion outlaw 12" double barrel one handed with a 3" magnum, and fire both barrels at the same time with it shouldered.
 
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