Primer/powder storage box
- Thread starter energy8667
- Start date
No one unless you buy one of the old ammo/explosive boxes that show up on the EE once in a while.
There are quite a few good woodworkers on CGN, I'm surprised that no one has offered to make some.
Then again I guess most people don't give a crap about the regs as you never hear about an inspection or charges. My BBQ tank is more dangerous.
There are quite a few good woodworkers on CGN, I'm surprised that no one has offered to make some.
Then again I guess most people don't give a crap about the regs as you never hear about an inspection or charges. My BBQ tank is more dangerous.
The strictly legal requirement is a locked container of "suitable material". Wood Or copper with copper or brass hinges is recommended but not required. Don't see why a locked ammo can doesn't meet "suitable material".
Funny thing is fully primed, loaded ammunition only requires to be in a "container" so a shoe box is fine
Funny thing is fully primed, loaded ammunition only requires to be in a "container" so a shoe box is fine
It is supposed to be made/fastened with non ferrous materials according to NRCAN. I had the link but can't find it now.
Safety cartridges (loaded ammo) are not subject to these storage requirements, just powder and primers. The laws don't have to make sense, they are what they are.
Safety cartridges (loaded ammo) are not subject to these storage requirements, just powder and primers. The laws don't have to make sense, they are what they are.
lineofsight
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, BC
Go to Crappy Tire, buy plastic tool box, check that cheap plastic hinges do not have metal pin and voila.
Yeah that is what lots of people do do but it does not satisfy the reasoning of the 3/4" thickness of the wood box.
We can argue the reasoning behind it all day long but it is what it is. The OP can decide what he want's to do.
- Location
- The Orion Arm
Actually, the statute as I read it requires a box made of plywood 3/4" thick with non-ferrous fasteners (to reduce the chance of spark/conduction of intense heat).
Here and here and here...
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._599/page-32.html#docCont
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._599/page-33.html#docCont
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._599/page-34.html#docCont
I've built my own box out of 3/4" plywood with brass fixtures to store my powders and primers in (seperated by another 3/4" wall between them). I've built it in order to comply with the Fed regs because, God forbid, I have a fire, I don't want the insurance company to deny me coverage because I wasn't storing them according to regs. In addition, I've clearly labeled the outside of the box so that if any firemen enter the house during a fire (presumably in the dark, with alot of smoke and near zero visibility), they'll clearly see the markings "in contrasting background" and take the necessary precautions. I'll try and post some pics
- Location
- The Orion Arm
Here are the pics of my box. The outside walls are 1" thick, made my gluing and screwig 2 1/2" sheets together (they didn't have 3/4" in stock at the time). The whole thing is about 4'x3'x2'. The top shelf is used for the powder and primers. The bottom shelf is used for my ammo boxes, reloading die stands and various powder hoppers
.
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I wonder if your insurance would prefer a steel box that will contain the contents, or a wooden box that will burn and release the contents, given that the chances of the contents actually starting a fire is zero.
- Location
- The Orion Arm
It's not about containing the contents. Primers going off inside any container are not going to turn into lethal projectiles, and the burning powders will just turn into gas.
I think they drafted the regs like that because if the powders burn or reach combustion temps, they will release alot of gas and if inside a rigid container, potentially turn into a low powered bomb. I don't think the boys in the fire dept. would appreciate that.
Brass fittings also have the advantage of having a lower melting point than ferrous ones, so in addition to not conducting heat into the container or potentially causing a spark, they can (if exposed to a fire) either easily give way when they become soft due to the heat, thus allowing the container to be structually compromised and be able to vent the gasses; or, can easily be broken apart for the same reason by the FD if they want to vent the gasses out of the container.
Venting of the gasses during a fire is imperative. You prevent all kinds of nasty secondary effects due to the primary fire.
As well, wood (not flimsly particle board, but the thick plywood called for) does not conduct ambient heat like metal does, so if there is a fire nearby, the wood would lessen the amount and the rate of heat entering the storage area. It won't melt like a plastic storage box or conduct the heat to the thin plastic powder jugs like metal would. It is radient heat that causes more items to reach combustion temperatures rather than direct flame.
....and even if you and I think and the entire community think these regs are FUBAR, why give the insurance a reason NOT to pay out? I don't think arguing that the regs are idiotic will convince them to part with their money, if I were to suffer damages. An ounce of prevention and all that jazz.....
I think they drafted the regs like that because if the powders burn or reach combustion temps, they will release alot of gas and if inside a rigid container, potentially turn into a low powered bomb. I don't think the boys in the fire dept. would appreciate that.
Brass fittings also have the advantage of having a lower melting point than ferrous ones, so in addition to not conducting heat into the container or potentially causing a spark, they can (if exposed to a fire) either easily give way when they become soft due to the heat, thus allowing the container to be structually compromised and be able to vent the gasses; or, can easily be broken apart for the same reason by the FD if they want to vent the gasses out of the container.
Venting of the gasses during a fire is imperative. You prevent all kinds of nasty secondary effects due to the primary fire.
As well, wood (not flimsly particle board, but the thick plywood called for) does not conduct ambient heat like metal does, so if there is a fire nearby, the wood would lessen the amount and the rate of heat entering the storage area. It won't melt like a plastic storage box or conduct the heat to the thin plastic powder jugs like metal would. It is radient heat that causes more items to reach combustion temperatures rather than direct flame.
....and even if you and I think and the entire community think these regs are FUBAR, why give the insurance a reason NOT to pay out? I don't think arguing that the regs are idiotic will convince them to part with their money, if I were to suffer damages. An ounce of prevention and all that jazz.....
- Location
- Golden Lake
Look on the CSSA site, Click on "Legal Information", then click on "Legal info for reloaders"
- Location
- Midland, ON
This is a perfect place to document the way your powder and primers and such are stored for insurance purposes. Try finding your backup pictures after a total loss fire and prove that the blackened mass of charcoal was exactly what you say it is. Insurance companies will do EVERYTHING to keep from paying out.
Checked that. They have not updated it with the new regs.
I just read through the regs and can't find any reference to 3/4" plywood specifically.
Just that it shall be made of wood, copper or other suitable material.
Also, there is no iron-clad requirement for copper or brass fittings. Only that those metals are preferrable. Talk about subjective.
Just that it shall be made of wood, copper or other suitable material.
Also, there is no iron-clad requirement for copper or brass fittings. Only that those metals are preferrable. Talk about subjective.
- Location
- The Orion Arm
Here:
http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/legal_info_for_reloaders.html
...and I suppose you could use plastic fasteners, but brass ones are cheap and readily available
home made
its rickity and a little out of square, but only took $25 and 30 mins to do....and it does the trick
That's pretty much what mine look like. Went to Home Dep., looked at what they had for boards, measured, made sure mine was tall enough to hold 8lb powder jug of any manufacturer, figured how to get the board cut lenght wise only to put box together, got screws, hinges, lock. Home Dep. cut the board I picked (at my measurements) for free. Took the pieces and screwed them together at home in 10 mins. Oh, and put 'explosives' on the box as a buddy of mine makes stencils and I got him make a few for me for free. Total cost was about $20 and total time spent about 1hrs including calculations and drive to store and back, painting too.
lineofsight
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, BC
Please quote the section in the Regs or Act where it states that the box has to be wood and/or 0.75" thick.
Read the section from the regs below and answer:
1. does it have to be wood?
2. do the hinges have to be copper or brass?
3. can a plastic tool case be
a. locked
b. used exclusively for storage of explosives
c. a suitable material
d. free from grit, iron, steel..
e. scrupulously clean
f. marked with the word "EXPLOSIVES"
From the Regulations
137. In regard to any receptacle, the following provisions shall be observed:
(a) it shall be provided with a closely fitting lid secured by a lock, and hinges and fastenings, preferably of copper or brass, and otherwise closed and secured so as to prevent unauthorized persons having access thereto, and shall be kept locked except when required to be open for receipt or removal of explosives, or other necessary purpose;
(b) it shall be exclusively used for the keeping of explosives;
(c) it shall be made of wood, copper or other suitable material;
(d) the interior of the receptacle and all fittings therein shall be so constructed, covered or lined as to prevent the exposure of any iron or steel, or of any hard or gritty surface, or the entry, detaching, or accumulating of grit, iron, steel or similar substance;
(e) the interior of the receptacle shall be kept scrupulously clean; and
(f) the receptacle shall have the word “EXPLOSIVES” conspicuously displayed thereon on a contrasting background.
However, there does appear to be a criteria that the container is easily accessible so that it can be removed in case of fire... thus if cannot remove the storage container (because secured to building, too heavy, not fit through exit...) then may well be in violation.
136. In this Part, “suitable receptacle” means a sub- stantial box or substantial container,
(a) that may be placed inside a building that is not it- self adapted for the keeping of explosives;
(b) the location of which is not changed from that prescribed by an inspector or under provincial or mu- nicipal law;
(c) that is kept away from goods of an inflammable nature; and
(d) that is of easy access for removal in case of fire.
Is a toolbox substantial? That term is undefined but the fact that tools tend to be more expensive & heavier than powder & primers and tool boxes are sufficiently substantive to handle tools...
