some questions that I don't know

[sleepingcat]

quote
"All semi-automatic centre-fire rifle magazines are limited to 5 rounds of ammunition. All handgun magazines are limited to 10 rounds of ammunition. Because the law is worded so that it is the magazine that is being controlled, it has allowed AR-15 owners (and owners of other firearms that use the popular AR-15 magazine) the ability to use 10 round pistol magazines in their rifles. This is because there is a pistol variant of the AR-15 and the magazine designed for the pistol variant will also work in the rifle. There are no limits set for any rimfire rifle magazines."

"Non-Restricted includes most traditionally styled (i.e. non-EBR) long guns. Non-Restricted semi-automatics must have a minimum barrel length of 470mm (~18.5"). Magazine capacity is generally limited to 5 rounds for centerfire guns, except that M1 Garand factory clips (8rd) and Lee-Enfield factory magazines (10rd) are specifically exempted."

questions:
1.Can AR-15 owners use 10 round pistol magazines in their rifles legally??
2.which one(Non-Restricted semi-automatic rifle) has the maximum magazine capacity legally?M1 Garand(8rd)??
3.Lee-Enfield is a special bolt action rifle with 10rd magazine .
Are there any limits set for bolt action \pump action rifles magazines?(Non-Restricted rifles)
THANKS!

 

[dink27]

1.Can AR-15 owners use 10 round pistol magazines in their rifles legally??

Yes if the magazine was designed to work in a pistol. Thats why we can use the LAR 10 round mags. The mags were specifically designed to be used in a pistol, the RRA LAR-15. Same deal for lots of pistol calibre carbines that take pistol mags.

2.which one(Non-Restricted semi-automatic rifle) has the maximum magazine capacity legally?M1 Garand(8rd)??

I think the Garand is the only exception and is named in the legislation becuase of its historic value.

3.Lee-Enfield is a special bolt action rifle with 10rd magazine .
Are there any limits set for bolt action \pump action rifles magazines?(Non-Restricted rifles)

Not by law. Manually cycled actions do not come with magazine restrictions.

At least those are what I understand the present laws to be, some one older and wiser will likely correct me.

Good luck,
D!NK

 

[my_2_cents]

I don't know about the Garand, but other than that Dink27 is correct on the other answers. I'm sure you know this already, but 30 round AR mags are legal as long as they are pinned permanently to 5 rounds.

The reverse situation has occurred in some .22LR variants of the AR15 though, I think the S&W 15-22. Rimfire magazines are not limited in semi-auto, but because there is a pistol variant, this rifle magazine is limited to 10 rounds. The owners got screwed on that one because this decision wasn't made by RCMP until after many of the rifles had been sold I believe.

 

[TDC]

I have to ask this again. WHAT THE #### ARE PEOPLE BEING TAUGHT DURING A PAL COURSE?! This information should have been covered in depth.

As for the questions. Its real simple. If a vendor sells it, its legal to use. These questions come up almost daily, try the search function as well.

TDC

 

[my_2_cents]

TDC, the PAL course usually doesn't explain the 10 round AR mags in rifles at all, that's one of those loop holes that they prefer people not know I think.

The issue of if its being sold its legal isn't always a sure thing, and we all know that it wouldn't hold up in court if we were charged with something.

Definitely this issue is posted repeatedly in the forums, but there are many issues posted repeatedly, perhaps you could volunteer to be a moderator and delete all the duplicate threads.

 

[Blastattack]

I don't understand why the RCMP gives any reference to the Lee Enfield. It is not semi-automatic, therefore it has an unlimited magazine capacity, as are all Manual Action Centerfire firearms. If someone built a 100 round drum for the Lee Enfield, it would be perfectly legal.

 

[TDC]

TDC, the PAL course usually doesn't explain the 10 round AR mags in rifles at all, that's one of those loop holes that they prefer people not know I think.

The issue of if its being sold its legal isn't always a sure thing, and we all know that it wouldn't hold up in court if we were charged with something.

Definitely this issue is posted repeatedly in the forums, but there are many issues posted repeatedly, perhaps you could volunteer to be a moderator and delete all the duplicate threads.

I teach the firearms course and have for a decade now. If the legal capacity of firearms including the 10 round pistol mag in a rifle loop hole isn't being discussed, you're getting ripped off and the instructor is lacking knowledge. I couldn't care less if my students fail to identify a flint lock from a match lock. Nor do I care if they can demonstrate the kneeling position. The course is about the safe handling which is summed up with four rules and about legal requirements and how to stay within them. There is no crime committed for misidentification of a firearm type, nor is it a crime to shoot standing on one leg. It is a crime(not that anyone agrees with it) to run more than 5 rounds in a magazine specifically designed for a rifle which is centre fire and semi automatic in operation. It is also very much legal to run a 10 round pistol mag that happens to fit a centre fire semi automatic rifle. This is important information. I'm not sure where you got "they" from, but none of the firearms instructors are government employees.

As for it being sold as a safe bet. I can tell you that having worked retail in the firearms industry, yes that is a safe bet. The risk of losing your business and being charged is not worth making a few bucks with prohibited items. Gun shows being the exception as they can consist of individuals selling their personal wares. However, big stores like Wolverine, TSE, Questar, P&D, Marstar and frontier Firearms(to name a few) are very well aware of what is and is not legal to sell. If its available its legal. Questar has even gone so far as to provide a link from the RCMP that indicates the legal use of 10 round "pistol" mags in rifles.

I'll leave the moderating up to the many who are already tasked with the duty. If I was a mod there wouldn't be many threads at all..

TDC

 

[my_2_cents]

TDC, if only all instructors believed as you do. I took my PAL course over 10 years ago, and it was taught by old timers who cared more about which cartridge was best for hunting deer than they did about safety or the law.

 

[TDC]

TDC, if only all instructors believed as you do. I took my PAL course over 10 years ago, and it was taught by old timers who cared more about which cartridge was best for hunting deer than they did about safety or the law.

Sadly your experience is far from uncommon. Many "instructors" need to review just what is involved with the course and limit the personal discussion regarding calibre and applications of firearms until after the important and required information is taught.

TDC

 

[Aniest]

... except that M1 Garand factory clips (8rd) and Lee-Enfield factory magazines (10rd) are specifically exempted."

questions:
1.Can AR-15 owners use 10 round pistol magazines in their rifles legally??
2.which one(Non-Restricted semi-automatic rifle) has the maximum magazine capacity legally?M1 Garand(8rd)??
3.Lee-Enfield is a special bolt action rifle with 10rd magazine .
Are there any limits set for bolt action \pump action rifles magazines?(Non-Restricted rifles)
THANKS!

1. Yes: the LAR-15 mags are specifically designed for a pistol and are marked as such. The control of the magazine is detailed in the "handguns" section of the law, and it just happens to be useable in the AR-15 platform.

2. I believe the largest magazine capacity semi-available centrefire Non-Restricted semi-automatic rifle, using its own magazines that are not pinned, is the M1 Garand as named. There are pistol magazines and some other situations of magazines intended for another firearm being "cross-used" that I am not counting.

3. I asked this question before to several people: I am told there is an uber-rare .303 semi-automatic Lee-Enfield called the Charlton Automatic Rifle (wikipedia is link) among other attempts that take the standard No4 and No5 10 round magazines. For the half dozen or so that might exist in Canada the exemption was made by name.

 

[Blastattack]

3. I asked this question before to several people: I am told there is an uber-rare .303 semi-automatic Lee-Enfield called the Charlton Automatic Rifle (wikipedia is link) among other attempts that take the standard No4 and No5 10 round magazines. For the half dozen or so that might exist in Canada the exemption was made by name.

Even still, that is somewhat incorrect.
Here is the exact verbiage, and all magazine exemptions:

5. The components and parts of weapons, accessories, and cartridge magazines listed in Part 4 of the schedule are prohibited devices for the purposes of paragraphs (a) and (d) of the definition “prohibited device” in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code.

*(note that sections are not labeled, though this should apply to the statement above)*

3. (1) Any cartridge magazine
(a) that is capable of containing more than five cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in
(i) a semi-automatic handgun that is not commonly available in Canada,
(ii) a semi-automatic firearm other than a semi-automatic handgun,
(iii) an automatic firearm whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger,
(iv) the firearms of the designs commonly known as the Ingram M10 and M11 pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them, including the Cobray M10 and M11 pistols, the RPB M10, M11 and SM11 pistols and the SWD M10, M11, SM10 and SM11 pistols,
(v) the firearm of the design commonly known as the Partisan Avenger Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, or
(vi) the firearm of the design commonly known as the UZI pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Micro-UZI pistol; or
(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.
(2) Paragraph (1)(a) does not include any cartridge magazine that
(a) was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that
(i) is chambered for, or designed to use, rimfire cartridges,
(ii) is a rifle of the type commonly known as the “Lee Enfield” rifle, where the magazine is capable of containing not more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed, or
(iii) is commonly known as the U.S. Rifle M1 (Garand) including the Beretta M1 Garand rifle, the Breda M1 Garand rifle and the Springfield Armoury M1 Garand rifle;
(b) is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that
(i) is commonly known as the Charlton Rifle,
(ii) is commonly known as the Farquhar-Hill Rifle, or
(iii) is commonly known as the Huot Automatic Rifle;
(c) is of the “drum” type, is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm commonly known as
(i) the .303 in. Lewis Mark 1 machine-gun, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Lewis Mark 1*, Mark 2, Mark 2*, Mark 3, Mark 4, Lewis SS and .30 in. Savage-Lewis,
(ii) the .303 in. Vickers Mark 1 machine-gun, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Mark 1*, Mark 2, Mark 2*, Mark 3, Mark 4, Mark 4B, Mark 5, Mark 6, Mark 6* and Mark 7, or
(iii) the Bren Light machine-gun, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Mark 1, Mark 2, Mark 2/1, Mark 3 and Mark 4;
(d) is of the “metallic-strip” type, is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in conjunction with the firearm known as the Hotchkiss machine-gun, Model 1895 or Model 1897, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Hotchkiss machine-gun, Model 1900, Model 1909, Model 1914 and Model 1917, and the Hotchkiss machine-gun (Enfield), Number 2, Mark 1 and Mark 1*;
(e) is of the “saddle-drum” type (doppeltrommel or satteltrommel), is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in the automatic firearms known as the MG-13, MG-15, MG-17, MG-34, T6-200 or T6-220, or any variant or modified version of it; or
(f) is of the “belt” type consisting of a fabric or metal belt, is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for the purpose of feeding cartridges into a automatic firearm of a type that was in existence before 1945.
(3) Paragraph (1)(b) does not include any cartridge magazine that
(a) is of the “snail-drum” type (schneckentrommel) that was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that is a handgun known as the Parabellum-Pistol, System Borchardt-Luger, Model 1900, or “Luger”, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Model 1902, Model 1904 (Marine), Model 1904/06 (Marine), Model 1904/08 (Marine), Model 1906, Model 1908 and Model 1908 (Artillery) pistols;
(b) was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that is a semi-automatic handgun, where the magazine was manufactured before 1910;
(c) was originally designed or manufactured as an integral part of the firearm known as the Mauser Selbstladepistole C/96 (“broomhandle”), or any variant or modified version of it, including the Model 1895, Model 1896, Model 1902, Model 1905, Model 1912, Model 1915, Model 1930, Model 1931, M711 and M712; or
(d) was originally designed or manufactured for use in the semi-automatic firearm that is a handgun known as the Webley and Scott Self-Loading Pistol, Model 1912 or Model 1915.

 

[Blastattack]

It's odd the the Lee Enfield has a MAXIMUM capacity of ten rounds, while any and every other manual action centerfire has an unlimited round capacity. This is especially peculiar because anybody with a gun that accepts Bren mags can source (with great difficulty, mind you) a 100 round magazine and legally use it with impunity.

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