MOA or MRAD???

Katana

Katana

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I'm looking to get into long range but there is lots of variables to decide on. I already know that I want a FFP but I'm stuck on either MOA or MRAD.
What are your preferences and why???
FYI, I'm completely new to this...
 
MOA you will find that a lot of competitive shooter use this and a lot of them will have a hard time coaching you with mrad
 
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Mrad is metric and Moa is imperial

Mrad will have finer adjustments (1 click = 1/10th Mrad) vs (1 click = 1/4 Moa)

Remember you're going to be using this scope. Don't be pressured to use a certain style just because some military organization uses it.

IMHO, counting 1/10th clicks is my easier than 1/4 or 1/8 hahahahahah.
 
You might find that 1 click on a metric scope produces about 1/3 minute adjustment. This can be a little on the coarse side if you are looking for a fine zero.
Katana - you say that you are completely new to this but have decided on a first focal plane scope. Why?
 
clics are longer in mrad ( 0,1 mrad=1 cm at 100m almost 3/8" instead 1/4" )but most reticules are graduated in mrad regardles of the turetts
so for me the most important is a scope with reticule and turrets in same unit
 
I'm with Jerry on this one and all you have to do is go to a serious rifle match and see what's used. MOA is is easily taught by drawing a pie as part of a circle, with the circumference part indicated in degrees and minutes. Most know that there is 360 degrees in a circle and there is 60 minutes to a degree. Starting at the centre and moving ou####rd, show one minute at 100, 200, 300+ and you can see how each minute translates to a larger distance the further you go.

MOA and second focal plane dominate and will continue for some time.

Regards,

Peter
 
MRAD and first focal plane is for rapid estimation of distance to a target at any magnification.

The cross-hair gets larger as you zoom, for rifle matches this can lead to a cross hair that is thicker than the centre of the target.

This system is designed for Military use so that you can rapidly estimate distance and rapidly dial in your elevation to hit a man sized target at unknown distance before it moves. Some of the US optics scopes have only 1/4 MRAD increments to speed up elevation adjustments. If your target is large, then all of this makes sense, if you are trying to hit a 5 inch V-bull at 1000 yards then this is of no use, and given that you may hide the V-bull with your cross hair this system is useless for competition.
 
You could never convince me on a first focal plane scope. Second focal plane for me always. I would take the advice you get on this site with a grain of salt. There are many long range "wannabes" that use whatever the military uses and consider 400 yards to be long range.
Peter Dobson and Jerry (from Mystic Precision) are good sources of information combined with years of experience. The "Call of Duty" commandos offer tons of advice that consist of no value.
I use strictly MOA. A majority of the long range shooting community uses it as well. I'd rather be speaking the "language" of the majority, especially of you are new and learning the game.
Choose what suits you though.
 
tiriaq said:
You might find that 1 click on a metric scope produces about 1/3 minute adjustment. This can be a little on the coarse side if you are looking for a fine zero.
Katana - you say that you are completely new to this but have decided on a first focal plane scope. Why?
Click to expand...

I am new bu have been reading and watching videos about it. I say that a ffp is maybe a way to go as the mils are the same at any magnification, I see a benefit in that.
 
roberti11 said:
MRAD and first focal plane is for rapid estimation of distance to a target at any magnification.

The cross-hair gets larger as you zoom, for rifle matches this can lead to a cross hair that is thicker than the centre of the target.

This system is designed for Military use so that you can rapidly estimate distance and rapidly dial in your elevation to hit a man sized target at unknown distance before it moves. Some of the US optics scopes have only 1/4 MRAD increments to speed up elevation adjustments. If your target is large, then all of this makes sense, if you are trying to hit a 5 inch V-bull at 1000 yards then this is of no use, and given that you may hide the V-bull with your cross hair this system is useless for competition.
Click to expand...


Brilliant advice. for shooting at known distances FFP makes no sense at all. put your money into the glass, not the glitz. for me the dot and cross hairs cannot be too fine.
 
You have to also decide what you want the optic for. A discipline or other pursuit with unknown distance to a target FFP and MRAD is fine but there is lots of seasoned advice proffered on previous posts to the contrary for known target distance competition.

xopher
Google MOA and the acronym is explained in detail with direct reference to shooting
 
xopher said:
Mrad is metric and Moa is imperial

Mrad will have finer adjustments (1 click = 1/10th Mrad) vs (1 click = 1/4 Moa)

Remember you're going to be using this scope. Don't be pressured to use a certain style just because some military organization uses it.

IMHO, counting 1/10th clicks is my easier than 1/4 or 1/8 hahahahahah.
Click to expand...

this is wrong

MOA and Mrad are both angular measurements , neither of them are imperial or metric , mrad are coarser than moa.

for me FFP with matching turrets is the only thing that is important, doing holdover /windage math with sfp scopes when underpresure just adds to the error factor
 
xopher said:
Mrad is metric and Moa is imperial
Click to expand...

BULLs**t.


MRAD is based off of the 1:1000 ratio meaning 1 mil (10 clicks) at 1000 yards is 1 yard, or at 1000 meters it's 1 meter, or at 1000 inches it's 1 inch, or at 1000 miles it's 1 mile. There is no metric or imperial BS to angles in general. Just because an MoA is roughly 1" at 100 yards doesn't make it imperial. At 934 meters, one click with an MRAD scope is 0.0934 meters or 9.34cm. At 934 yards, one click is 0.0934 yards or 0.0934*36 inches. It's obvious that using meters for ranging makes it easier for math which is why MRAD gets confused as metric sometimes.


There is no real reason why I pick MRAD units for my optics, but I do. I like the idea of the 1:1000 ratio and it's what the military uses which, again, means nothing really.


The major con against MRAD is that the 1/10 MRAD adjustments are coarser than the 1/4 MoA adjustments, meaning 1/4 MoA at 100 yards is about 0.25" where 1/10th of an MRAD is about 0.36". If you are worried about 10cm click values at 1km ranges, than go MoA, or better yet 1/8 MoA adjustments. However, because you've picked FFP (bravo on that), I doubt that'll be an issue (reticle thickness becomes more of an issue at long ranges).



Your main concern is the purpose, budget, and most importantly, matching the reticle hashmarks to the turrets (why there are so many mil dot scopes with MoA adjustments is beyond me). If you are shooting pop cans from 3km away, get SFP and 1/8th MoA adjustments. If you are hunting (even at long ranges) or don't expect to get 1/2 MoA precision out of your rifle, going FFP and MRAD is nothing to be afraid of.


Also,
Mystic Precision said:
MRAD clicks are way too coarse
Click to expand...


Sorry Jerry but I wouldn't go so far as to call them way too coarse. At 1000 yards, one click (1/10th of a mil) is 10cm or 3.93" whereas 1/4 MoA at 1000 yards is about 2.63". That means the MRAD scope is about 1.3" more coarse (actually more like 1.3" divided between 2 clicks so 0.65"). Now, if you're getting 1/2 MoA precision at 1000 yards, that's still about a 5" grouping, more likely to be a sideways elipse too. Centering that group on the vbull to +/- 2.54"/2 with the MoA scope or +/- 3.93"/2 with the MRAD scope seems like peanuts imo.


Basically, the MoA scope will allow you to get up to 0.65" closer to your target at 1000 yards.






And to the OP, read this:

http://www.mil-dot.com/media/1027/the_derivation_of_the_range_estimation_equations.pdf
 
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It makes no difference which one you pick/learn. It's like learning miles vs kilometers.

I'm not a fan of FFP unless you are under a couple hundred yards. It is great for tactical use inside about 250-300 yds, but not so great the longer distance you shoot.

I would get matching reticle and turrets for sure tho. For me it's easier to see a miss with a mil dot reticle of say .5 mils below the crosshair and holdover .5 mils or come up (5) .1 mil clicks. However I learned on a mil dot. reticle/moa turret

If you get a MOA reticle make sure the turrent is MOA and not IPHY unless of course the MOA reticle is IPHY. The turrents should be marked .25moa or .25"

The math will get easier regardless of what combination of turrets and reticles you end up choosing.
 
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