.223 effectiveness at range w/ rifle length barrel?

xxtruthxx

xxtruthxx

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Alrighty

As a new poster to these threads, I would like to mention I have been viewing and reading for a while now and I have tried the search function on the forums, but I sure many know that it lacks ever so slightly, OR I perhaps didn't use it properly.

Regardless I pose this question:

On a rifle length barrel ( 18" - 22" ) what are effective or more to the point what ranges can you stay accurate at ( lets say 2 or 3 moa ) ?

Now I'm talking about a AR style rifle, bolt actions need not apply.

"Corrective" criticism is welcomed

Thank you CGNer's
 
In my true life Experiences , only 100-150 meters , my gun is a bushmaster 18.5 " barrel ,55 grains Winchester.
 
Never had a problem with 100 yards using cheap ammo. Military ss109 ammo gave better groups. Barrel length is 14.5" and doesnt seem to make a difference at this distance what bbl. length. I would not drop below 14,5" and maybe go 16" or 18". seems to stabalize everything.
 
Trotter said:
Never had a problem with 100 yards using cheap ammo. Military ss109 ammo gave better groups. Barrel length is 14.5" and doesnt seem to make a difference at this distance what bbl. length. I would not drop below 14,5" and maybe go 16" or 18". seems to stabalize everything.
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As a new member here myself... I get discouraged when only the second response given is starting to sway off the orig. question.
They asked 18-22" barrel... not 14.5... & they did not name a 100 yard mark, they asked at what range can they keep 2-3 M.O.A. I too would like to know what I can get out of the 18-22 length as well!
 
It will be worth it for you to do some google search & reading, you'll get alot of info - general consensus is that accuracy (measured in MOA) is determined by MANY factors, only one of which is related to barrel length - and its often the LEAST of your problems when compared with trigger, barrel quality, and operator capability.

The length of the barrel only affects accuracy in terms of ballistic velocity (which starts to affect the bullet trajectory as distances increase) - from what I see it is around a 200fps drop between a 14.5" barrel & a 18" barrel. Above 18" the differences are even smaller, there is not much velocity change up to 24".

At under 300yards, I am not sure if this is a real "accuracy" factor - if your gun is shooting 3MOA ist not because of barrel length.....

So what I'm saying is, accuracy is not governed so much by this - get any barrel length you like, because if you are not shooting past 500M it will not make much difference - if you want to keep 2-3MOA, you'll need a good trigger, barrel, rifle, ammo & skill.
 
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A quality 22" barrel with the right twist rate (1:7 to 1:8) to handle heavier bullets, like 69 grainers, will shoot accurately at 600 meters no problem, but will suffer from the effects of wind more than some more effective calibres.
 
I knew a marine who shot a guy at 1050 with an m16a4 with acog.

Depending on ammo, barrel type, twist rate, trigger, and the end user you can shoot 223 to good distance with good accuracy. I know guys shooting ar's with 62gr out of 16" barrels and holding 3moa or less at 600.
 
JonVisscher said:
As a new member here myself... I get discouraged when only the second response given is starting to sway off the orig. question.
They asked 18-22" barrel... not 14.5... & they did not name a 100 yard mark, they asked at what range can they keep 2-3 M.O.A. I too would like to know what I can get out of the 18-22 length as well!
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How can a person answer this without knowing the optic system, weapon system, ammo weight, ammo type including BC. let alone the barrel length. I threw out an general answer of 100 yards for 2-3 MOA with irons and basic ammo trying to be helpful with limited information. the answer can change by adding optics and ammo with a better bc.

and would agree with longer range as in this post:

Grizzlypeg said:
A quality 22" barrel with the right twist rate (1:7 to 1:8) to handle heavier bullets, like 69 grainers, will shoot accurately at 600 meters no problem, but will suffer from the effects of wind more than some more effective calibres.
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Trotter said:
How can a person answer this without knowing the optic system, weapon system, ammo weight, ammo type including BC. let alone the barrel length. I threw out an general answer of 100 yards for 2-3 MOA with irons and basic ammo trying to be helpful with limited information. the answer can change by adding optics and ammo with a better bc.

I see how you could get confused.
Not your fault. Again... just discouraging when you "threw out a general answer" to a question fairly straight forward. optics or not... I think the question still hasn't been answered.
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In basic training for the Canadian military in 1990 the words were. The C7 rifle is effective to 300 meters with individual fire and 500 meters with mass fire(The whole section blazing away at the same target) MOA never came into it.
 
formerfarmer said:
In basic training for the Canadian military in 1990 the words were. The C7 rifle is effective to 300 meters with individual fire and 500 meters with mass fire(The whole section blazing away at the same target) MOA never came into it.
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So more people shooting makes projectiles go farther? Lol

Reminds me of when Mark Lonsdale was tellin me about how afghanis would out their rear sights on ak's all the way up on elevation so the bullets would go further....
 
grizzlypeg your info is greatly appreciated.

As a brand new shooter, triggers, optics and barrel options are nearly irrelevant at this point in time to me. And again I'm a new shooter so my skill is zero and poses little value to the question.

So lets exclude the other variables because the interest is in the length of barrel and how say how a 14" barrel might preform versus 18" or 20" barrel.

And then info gained will help decide whether I purchase a rifle length AR or something smaller.
 
At 500 yards 2moa is 10" A good AR or similar rifle with an 18"-20" barrel will certainly hold that. The rifle will do it. The limiting factors are going to be wind, shooter skill, ammo and optics.

I can hold 10" at 500 for 5 rounds no problem with an 20" SA if there is no wind. I can shoot in mountain valleys which block most winds. Out on the prairies for example winds can pick up speed or change direction before you are done firing your group. This has much more impact on group size at range than barrel length ever will.

Next we can give the same rifle to shooter A who fails to hit a barn, before giving it to shooter B who blows the bullseye out of the target.

As long as you get a quality 16", 18", or 20" AR barrel you are good to go.
 
Ok - well you spoke about MOA, so triggers,optics, barrel quality, and skill are what control that. Barrel length controls bullet velocity and nothing else.

So, as a new shooter, shooting an AR (in Canada - which means ranges only, 99% are at 500M or less) - get any barrel you want, 14.5 - 22" because they will all work & none will really affect your accuracy.

Its all the other things that will affect it - 2-3MOA is within reach of virtually any AR platform at ranges of 500M or less.

You are getting stuck on something that has little bearing on the accuracy of your rifle at typical ranges - if you want a recommendation, I'd say go 16" (compact for CQB as well as Service ranges) and shoot like CRAZY - because trigger time is what will get 2-3MOA (or better) - not barrel length.
 
This is such a broad question with so many different variables that it really can't be answered.

A military grade rifle (C7), using military grade ammo (SS109 equivilant), must be able to group under 4" at 100 metres for it to be considered serviceable. So a rack grade rifle already falls outside of the parameters that the OP is asking about.
 
Barrel length has almost no effect on accuracy (within reason).

In fact, shorter barrels often are more accurate than longer ones.

The biggest difference between say a 14.5" and a 20" barrel would be bullet drop, not accuracy.
 
smak_daddy said:
The biggest difference between say a 14.5" and a 20" barrel would be bullet drop, not accuracy.
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Not just bullet drop, but a slower bullet will be more affected by wind as well--that's often overlooked by new shooters. No question--if you're looking for a rifle that will be easier to shoot accurately at long distance a longer barrel will perform better. Not as much fun to shoot as as shorter-barreled rifle, though! :)
 
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