Spandau 71/84?

[c0ntract]

I found something quite interesting and I was hopping that CGN might be able to help me get some information and determine value. So far I have figured out that its an 11mm Mauser made in Spandau... the rest is kind of a mystery

the rifle has some interesting markings, according to a post on another sight this one appears to have been issued and appears to be mostly complete.

Can anyone give me some information on this rig? I can't find to much on google so far except that its a Mauser and it fires a big round


***********************************************************************updated with more detailed pics***********


From what I can tell the S/N is 9967

The number 67 is stamped on every part of the rifle, even the screws and butt plate.

Ill let the photo's show what I mean.

 

[smellie]

It is a Mauser deign, based on their 1871 model (the bolt mechanism) as modded in 1884 (the tube magazine) and accepted for Imperial German military service. The old Spandau Arsenal was a Royal Prussian gun factory located just outside of Berlin.

It fires the 11.15x60R cartridge, otherwise known as the .43 Mauser. Cases are an A base design. This cartridge was loaded by Remington in the US until the 1930s or early 1940s, by Winchester at one time and by Dominion in Canada until 1968. The late Dominion loads were smokeless power.

By American standards, this would be a .44-77-386: bullet diameter is .446 despite the .433 bore, it ate 77 grains of Black powder and the soft-lead bullet was 386 grains. Ammo for the 1871 used a round-nosed bullet but this one took almost the same round..... but with a small FLAT on the bullet nose to prevent in-magazine chain-fires. Initial velocity was about 1425 ft per second and it got around 1740 ft/lbs ME. This puts it in about the same category as a .30-30 but the power is delivered entirely differently. Excellent Moose round, excellent bush round but it has a trajectory like a baseball.

Everybody makes dies for this one. The Lee Precision are the cheapest and they work okay.

You can handload this with 29 grains of SR-4759 and a bullet of correct weight. Do NOT exceed this load. It duplicates original performance and does it with original pressures, but heavier charge build pressure VERY fast. Stay safe.

Magazine capacity was 8 rounds, plus one on the carrier and one up the pipe.

These rifles are a LOT of fun to shoot.

Hope this helps.
.
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[cyclone]

 

[c0ntract]

Thanks for the great information guys! I appreciate it.

What do these guns usually sell for?

 

[Andy]

It's not worth much - perhaps $200. Unmolested they can go for as much as $1000, but usually $500-800.

You can safely use "Trapdoor" 45-70 loads, of which there are many.

 

[Ax.338]

More like $100-$150 if it has a good bore, and functions properly. That one looks pretty molested.

I`ve seen much nicer ones go for $150 lately.

 

[Nabs]

My fellow CGNers have covered the bases for your Spandau.

Here is what I can add. She was made in Berlin, the date of manufacturer is on the right side of the rear bridge. The "10.95" is the bore diameter. You can see this range from 10.95 to 11.05.

If she is 1888 dated, it is most interesting as the serial number can tell if you if she is proofed for Kaiser Wilhelm I (Wilhelm II's grandfather), Fredrich III, or Wilhelm II as it was known as the "Year of the Three Emperors". I have four 71.84s, all of which sit in the 1887 and 1888 period and which carry the monograms.

At any rate, it looks like you have a close sister to one of mine. One of my rifles is serial # 9600 in 1888 at Spandau so yours, if it is 1888 dated, is less than a day or two off the production line.

Any unit markings on the butt plate ?

 

[tacfoley]

Great fun to shoot - here's a pal of mine shooting his last summer -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn6B8hvrXC8

There are none here in UK that have been sporterized, on account of their rarity and that they are illegally low-powered, in spite of the well-known performance on large ungulates in North America. Here the bullet must make 1500fps AND 1500 ft lbs for larger deer.

Plus, the previously-noted thrown anvil trajectory means that you'd need to be within nose-picking distance, and here in yUK where the bigger deer are located they can see you coming for a day or so...

tac

 

[Nabs]

Beautiful 1871, what is the date and maker ? Any unit markings ?

 

[c0ntract]

Wow thanks for the responses guys!

If its only worth $200 I am definately going to clean it fix it and keep it. I checked the gun over today and all the parts have matching stamps from the bolt to the buttplate. I am headed back to the estate as apparently there is more milsurps kicking around that they want to get rid of.

The bore looks pretty good for a 100+ year old rifle and I can still clearly see the rifling. The action is really smooth, there is zero slop or play and the parts seem to fit more tightly than some of my modern guns. Were these guns machined? I am guessing they were, but I am really impressed by the tolerances.

I'll take more pics when I get home. The only markings on the buttplate are and S and a 67. I'll also post up the cereal #. This gun must be worth a bit more than $150 as I already have people asking to buy it off me for more than that haha

I really appreciate the ammo information, I will look further into that but until then I will get back to cleaning this rig.

Cheers

 

[Ax.338]

Well, it is worth what someone will buy it for.

Good to hear you are keeping it. The workmanship is outstanding on these.

Even better if you get to shooting it.

Lots of fun.

 

[c0ntract]

See first post for update

 

[c0ntract]

Well, it is worth what someone will buy it for.

Good to hear you are keeping it. The workmanship is outstanding on these.

Even better if you get to shooting it.

Lots of fun.

Oh I totally agree, I am happy to have a ball park now.

I have been cleaning it up all evening and it seems to be in good working order. There is still some sticky hard grease all over the action that looks like pitting or corrosion in my photos, but it is not. It is just the grease. I am trying to figure out the bolt release but it is proving more challenging than I thought. I think it is the lever beside the rear of the bolt but I can't seem to get it to go all the way... and I don't want to force it. Any ideas?

 

[smellie]

BOLT has to be in OPEN position.

The SCREW on the Bolt Body has to be slacked off a couple of turns and the COLLAR raised.

IIRC, CUTOFF (thing on left side at rear of Bolt, on the Body) has to be back. If I'm wrong, Nabs or somebody will correct me; it's been a long time since I took one of these down.

Now you pull the TRIGGER and ease the Bolt out of the Bolt-way.

The Bolt now may be taken down for cleaning. When putting the Bolt back together, remember to exert forward pressure on the SAFETY so that the COCKING-PIECE NUT may be screwed fully into place.

REASSEMBLY is in reverse order.

Hope this helps.
.

 

[Nabs]

Your on the right track, Smellie.

The easiest way I found to remove to bolt is to first open the bolt and pull it all the way back. Next, unscrew the collar screw on the bolt body but do NOT force it out as it was designed to stop and stay with the bolt body. Lastly, move the selector switch in the middle and, while lifting the collar with your finger, pull the back and out as your move the selector forward.

As previously mentioned, the workmanship on these rifles is incredible and a testament to the people who made them. You do not see the same level of quality anymore from human hands, only computers.

 

[MauserMike]

Don't try to remove the take down screw completely. It is pinned and will break.

Like was stated, a couple of turns should be all that is needed for the bolt to clear the receiver.

 

[c0ntract]

sweet thanks for the help everyone!

What else should I be looking for?

Thanks again

 

[Ax.338]

You might want to pull the barrelled action out off the stock. Only 2 screws on yours, since you have the mag tube out.

Some rifles look pretty bad below the stock line and should be cleaned up.
Most of these however are in real nice condition, and will give you an idea what they looked like when they were new.

Give it a light coat of grease or wax before you put it back together to keep it that way.

 

[Ax.338]

Would be a good idea to take the bolt apart and give it a good cleaning as well.

Likely looks like it has not been done in 125 years or so.

 

[c0ntract]

Would be a good idea to take the bolt apart and give it a good cleaning as well.

Likely has not been done in 125 years or so.

hahaha explains the cosmoline i keep finding.


Thanks again for the help.

Can anyone tell me how to determine the date of manufacture?