Hi...I'm looking for some advise. I buy and sell a few old Lee-Enfield, .303 rifles as a hobby. Don't make a fortune but maybe 40 to 50 bucks on them. I like to take a few shots at the local gravel pit to test for proper operation before I sell them so I can pass this info onto the perspective buyers. I usually pace off a hundred or so yds. and take a few shots. Problem is, I'm using some old campaign posters as targets and they aren't very big and if I am missing the target, I don't know to what direction I'm hitting. I don't have a truck to carry around a half sheet of plywood as a background to reference my shots so what if I sighted in at 25 yds? I heard that this is an acceptable practice for 200 yd. sighting. I'm not a great shot by-the-way....should practice more. Thanks...Bill
25/200 yard sighting...myth?
- Thread starter '09fxdb
- Start date
You are shooting iron sights so go back to 25 or 50 yards and shoot from a rest. If you miss the target you should be able to see the bullet impact and go from there. Bullet trajectory differs from one fire arm to another so I won't even bother guessing on the 25-200 yard question.
we usually site in at 25 yrds to get on the paper and then try it at 100 yards, should be close enough to dial in. Set for 1 1/2 in high and then check it at 200 yards. Adj as nesseccary. You should get a Rangefinder for your yardage. Unless you go to the same place all the time. You can mark it off with a pre-measured string to get it exact.
I think the 25/200 practice came from military, but I could be wrong. Maybe it was true for one firearm along the way, but don't think you can apply to every one. There are a lot of factors affecting trajectory. As already said by others, shoot from a good rest at 25 or 50 so you can see the bullet impact, and then move to greater distance.
Back in the day when most military rounds and most hunting rounds worked with similar velocities, the 25 yd/200 yd thing worked pretty well. Same with the 1.5 inches high at 100 yds thing. As long as you stayed within a certain velocity envelope (about 2300-2700 if memory serves) they both work pretty good. - dan
What are you trying to do? Do you want to tell buyers that the gun is "sighted in at 200 yds"? If so, you can only state that if you have shot it at 200 yds. If you sight it in at 25 yds, all you can say is that "it's sighted in at 25 yds". No claims otherwise, including about its accuracy can be made.
Hungry recently mentioned on a different thread that for the m-14 the 25M and 300M were the same..
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=798237
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=798237
The 25 yard sighting started with the advent of telescope sights beginning to be used by the hunting public, in the 1950s. One of the complaints about scopes at the time, was the often difficulty in hitting the paper, in getting them sighted in.
Jack O'Connor always seemed to have a solution to shooting problems, so he wrote in Outdoor Life about starting at close range.
The barrel of a rifle always has to be elevated, in relation to the sights, in order to take care of the arc the bullet travels at, beginning to drop as soon as it leaves the barrel.
Jack figured out that for an average hunting rifle the sighting should be a couple inches high at 100 yards, putting it a couple inches low at 200 yards.
So sighted, with a scope about 1.5 inch above the line of the bore, the bullet would cross the line of sight at less than 25 yards and again at about 160 yards, in the bullets arc to be a couple inches low at 200.
Therefore, do the preliminary sighting at 25 yards, where hits can easily be seen. Adjust the scope so the final sighting at 25 yards is ideally, half inch high. So sighted, your average hunting rifle will be right where you want it, about 2 inches high at 100 yards and the same low at 200.
With this sighting, I have often not had to touch the scope adustments when tested at the longer ranges.
In no way should the 25 yard sighting be referred to as a myth. It is just a straight calculation that any shooter should be able to figure out.
Back to the OP.
His iron sights on the Lee Enfields will be a bit lower to the line of the bore, than will a scope sighted rifle. Therefore, carefully sight it to hit one inch high at 25 yards, then go moose hunting.
Jack O'Connor always seemed to have a solution to shooting problems, so he wrote in Outdoor Life about starting at close range.
The barrel of a rifle always has to be elevated, in relation to the sights, in order to take care of the arc the bullet travels at, beginning to drop as soon as it leaves the barrel.
Jack figured out that for an average hunting rifle the sighting should be a couple inches high at 100 yards, putting it a couple inches low at 200 yards.
So sighted, with a scope about 1.5 inch above the line of the bore, the bullet would cross the line of sight at less than 25 yards and again at about 160 yards, in the bullets arc to be a couple inches low at 200.
Therefore, do the preliminary sighting at 25 yards, where hits can easily be seen. Adjust the scope so the final sighting at 25 yards is ideally, half inch high. So sighted, your average hunting rifle will be right where you want it, about 2 inches high at 100 yards and the same low at 200.
With this sighting, I have often not had to touch the scope adustments when tested at the longer ranges.
In no way should the 25 yard sighting be referred to as a myth. It is just a straight calculation that any shooter should be able to figure out.
Back to the OP.
His iron sights on the Lee Enfields will be a bit lower to the line of the bore, than will a scope sighted rifle. Therefore, carefully sight it to hit one inch high at 25 yards, then go moose hunting.
And in order for that calculation to have any accuracy, you need to know the muzzle velocity of your load, and the BC of the bullet, as well as the height of the crosshairs above the centerline of the bore. If you are using higher than average scope mounts, the point of impact will be higher at 200 yards. Using very high mounts, can really skew the results. Remember also, that any error at 25 yards, is magnified eight times at 200 yards. If you really want to know the point of impact at 200 yards, shoot your gun with the load in question at 200 yards.
This is the only way to prove exactly what your rifle and ammo are printing
on paper.
I use a laser bore sighter all the time these days, and, for the most part, it works well.
However, I always set up a target at between 25 & 30 yards [depending on chambering]
and take one shot.
I then adjust the scope to put the crosshairs on the bullet hole, but slightly higher than the bullet hole. [½" or so]
You must be able to hold the rifle from moving at all during this adjustment.
With most rifles I use, the first shot at 100 will now be between 2" and 3.5" high.
Final adjustment will put POI where you want it.
Except for Leupolds with the B&C reticule, I sight my hunting rifles +3" at 100.
Some say this is too high, because MRT will be 4"+, but I am used to it, and it gives
me the best point blank range with most chamberings.
[30-30 and those like it excluded]
Regards, Eagleye.
However, I always set up a target at between 25 & 30 yards [depending on chambering]
and take one shot.
I then adjust the scope to put the crosshairs on the bullet hole, but slightly higher than the bullet hole. [½" or so]
You must be able to hold the rifle from moving at all during this adjustment.
With most rifles I use, the first shot at 100 will now be between 2" and 3.5" high.
Final adjustment will put POI where you want it.
Except for Leupolds with the B&C reticule, I sight my hunting rifles +3" at 100.
Some say this is too high, because MRT will be 4"+, but I am used to it, and it gives
me the best point blank range with most chamberings.
[30-30 and those like it excluded]
Regards, Eagleye.
Looks like you went through my post and missed most of it.
I plainly stated, "Average hunting rifle--" which infers the 308/30-06 class of rifles using usual 150 or 180 grain bullets, which will very closely match the figures I gave.
I used this sentence---"Therefore, do the preliminary sighting at 25 yards, where hits can easily be seen."
Don't you not think that "preliminary," means that you would later sight at the longer distances?
I think I plainly stated that a scope line about 1.5 inches above the line of the bore was about average. Then I explained that iron sights would have a lower sight line, thus would need a higher sighting at 25 yards.
Then I used this sentence. "I have often not had to touch the scope adustments when tested at the longer ranges."
Does this not infer that I always check the sighting at the longer ranges? And does it not also infer that sighting first at 25 yards can prove to be quite accurate?
The point of my posting was to help people who are not too familiar with sighting in their rifles, and that by starting at 25 yards they will sight in much easier and use less ammunition, than when first shooting at long range and not knowing where the bullets are going.
Anyway, thanks for your interest in my post.
That doesn't appear to be what the OP is getting at. He appears to be asking if he can sight in for a 200 yard zero by shooting at 25 yards. He didn't mention anything about later shooting at 200 yards to fine tune the sight in.
You do yes, unfortunately, I have seen several people at our local range with the same idea. They shoot only at 25 yards, then use a ballistic calculator to determine points of impact farther downrange, with no shooting farther to verify those points of impact.
I find shooting at liberal campaign signs makes my groups much tighter. maybe youre simply using the wrong targets?..
