Trijicon ACOG 4x or Elcan Specter Adjstble 1-4x scope?
- Thread starter MrSchultz
- Start date
I had the same problem, this is the route I took.
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I find it compact, light, and it works well for all applications I use my AR for. 4X dual illumination with the ACOG along with a true 1:1 red dot.
By the way, there was a 1 - 4 Spectre DR on the EE not long ago for a very fair price, I was very tempted, but ended up buying another Glock, so had to take a pass. Not enough 'Toy' funds!! I seem to recall the seller was gravedigger.
Cheers
Piggy backed reddots are a poor idea. With such small viewing windows and no cheek weld they're difficult to use at speed which is what they're supposedly setup for. Add in the extreme mechanical offset and the reddot becomes a poor performer at short range.
TDC
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Kudos on choosing the Elcan Spectre - you won't be disappointed. While the ACOG is dual-illuminated, you can adjust the red dot/illumination on the Elcan (and all the measurements glow). In addition to having a better mount (the ARMS is very solid), eye relief is great - and the 1-4x toggle is a lot quicker than a magnifier. Weight-wise, ACOG+red dot/reflex = basically the same. Ditto for the price. Are you getting your ACR Cerakoted in FDE to match?
Be sure to look at the TA11 Acog as it has LOTS of eye relief (more than advertised) which is very important.
When I was looking for a combat optic this article was a big help. I'm still happy as hell with my TA11F.
ht tp://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/trijicon-acog-considerations
When I was looking for a combat optic this article was a big help. I'm still happy as hell with my TA11F.
ht tp://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/trijicon-acog-considerations
Yes, but the Elcan looks awesome and in our world thats 90% of the game, right?
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
If you enjoy less than ideal performance and not winning a match then I guess looking cool is important.
TDC
ouch! you really don't like the elcan do ya TDC ? don't hold back now
The glass is very clear, and the reticles are nice. They're just grossly over sized, overweight, and over priced. I see no benefit for a person to spend close to $2k on an optic rather than half that and the rest on ammo and practice. Its nice to have good gear but its far more important to get out and shoot.
TDC
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
While I won't disagree with the ammo/practice aspect, when you compare an ACOG+RMR to the Elcan Spectre you're going to be at basically the same price, weight and size (actually higher with the ACOG). Don't forget the mounts; the ARMS mount is a lot better than the standard Trijicon mount the ACOG comes with, and while you can certainly upgrade the mount for the ACOG - that bumps the price up as well. Used/mint Elcan Spectres can also typically be found for around $1,500.
I wouldn't recommend the ACOG+RMR setup either. The offset is atrocious and the cost is too high. The fixed 3x or 4x of an ACOG is not conducive to short range high speed shooting. There are better solutions for less money and lot of that solution comes in the form of practice and training. Run good glass, and learn to shoot it. Learn the holdover at all ranges, learn to shoot from the prone/supine and side prone positions. Learn to shoot from your support shoulder. Most importantly, learn the limitations of your optic and setup.
People need to select their gear based on the INTENDED ROLE for the system. If you shoot 50 yards and more on a regular basis, the ACOG could be the answer. If you shoot action matches and short range is the order of the day then the ACOG is not the best answer. Can short range be done with a fixed power ACOG? Definitely, but you need to understand its limitations and learn to compensate for them.
TDC
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Mikeschurman
Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
I'm also having this debate with myself, I've heard bad things about the poa/poi shift on the Elcans. I have an acog 4x on my AR but it sucks for short range and I'm not a fan of the rmr on top. I also looked at EO techs and aimpoints with the magnifiers but found the poi shift on those setups is horrible. Does anyone have any experience with the elcan and how much poi shift there actually is? Would be nice to have some type of optic that is accurate at 1x and same accuracy at 3 or 4x
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I think the POI shift is exaggerated, myself. Everyone that I know that uses the Elcan Spectre DR loves it and has not had any issues. Having used both the ACOG and Elcan, I prefer the Elcan; it just has better eye relief. You also have two visual options: either an adjustable red dot or varying levels of reticle illumination. I guess the EOTech/magnifier could be a good setup; I think it takes up a lot of real estate (it's a lot quicker to flip the lever on the Elcan - and you don't have change your point of view).
Whether you go with a decent ACOG/LaRue mount, an EOTech/magnifier combination or an Elcan Spectre DR - you're basically looking at the same price (around the $1300-$1500 range). Aside from the ACOG, I don't think you'll see any significant weight savings with an EOTech/magnifier setup. One other really minor item: you can get a kill flash for the Elcan and ACOG - but not the EOTech.
The eye relief is dependent on the model of ACOG. As for real estate(or rail estate), what else are you mounting? Flipping a magnifier takes no more time than throwing the lever on the Elcan, although having the magnifier hanging off the side is a downer. The minor shift in head position to use the magnifier is a non issue. As for killflash, there's no need for it on an Eotech.
TDC
