My $0.02 CSA vz58 vs CZ 858 , 7.62 vs .223
- Thread starter Lupara
- Start date
Making a great case for me to stick with 7.62
By the way, what's the deal with the 58's and optics? I heard a couple of complaints on that count.
Making a great case for me to stick with 7.62
By the way, what's the deal with the 58's and optics? I heard a couple of complaints on that count.
I dont think these rifles were designed for optics, due to how the cases eject. Any attempt to put optics on them is a jury rig job IMO.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
My buddy and I went out with his CZ in 5.56. His original firing pin broke within ten rounds and he had been sent an "upgraded" firing pin right away. This was our first trip out since the firing pin upgrade.
It lasted about fifteen rounds and broke as well. We were quite dissapointed. Very nice rifle overall, pointed very well, and handled and shot well, right up until the firing pin breaking stopped everying dead. Clearly there is a serious problem there.
It lasted about fifteen rounds and broke as well. We were quite dissapointed. Very nice rifle overall, pointed very well, and handled and shot well, right up until the firing pin breaking stopped everying dead. Clearly there is a serious problem there.
Any jury rigs more successful than the others? What kinda groups could you expect at 100-200-300yds, let's say with 4x mag?
Yeah man, as soon as mine broke, I got the new parts under warranty and traded it in for a loss to the first guy that would take it. I told him about the problem.
That action is designed for 7.62 steel case. IMO that .223 firing pin is too delicate for it.
LOVE my 7.62 though.
That's not bad with irons.. Does it involve some sort of a deflector to mount a typical 1-4x scope? An 858 is on my 2nd stage "to buy" list.. After a .22LR rifle, 9mm handgun and a reloading kit, in that order of priorities. For now I'll play with my SKS and dream on.
How dare you compare the keltec to my .223 CSA! not going to lie, I broke a firing pin about 500rds in. You other folks with broken FP's, what kind of ammo were you using? Used 500 55gr MFS no issue. Tossed in some win. 45gr hp white box, and didn't even finish the mag and snap. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. My theory is I pierced the primer. Pin replaced with a milled down 7.62 pin and I'm now at 2200 rounds with no further problems. Sticking with AE 55gr now. For me paying the extra 0.10/rd is worth vastly decreased hassle when it comes to cleaning vs 7.62
not going to lie, I broke a firing pin about 500rds in. You other folks with broken FP's, what kind of ammo were you using? Used 500 55gr MFS no issue. Tossed in some win. 45gr hp white box, and didn't even finish the mag and snap. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. My theory is I pierced the primer. Pin replaced with a milled down 7.62 pin and I'm now at 2200 rounds with no further problems. Sticking with AE 55gr now. For me paying the extra 0.10/rd is worth vastly decreased hassle when it comes to cleaning vs 7.62
I have the good ol CZ 858 with some accessories, 1200 rounds out the barrel so far without a single stoppage, failure or worn part. Yes the finish could be nicer and the dark grey took a while to accept but its a military rifle, meant to be beat up and function reliable not win Miss Range Queen Canada beauty contest.
My last batch of 7.62x39 cost me $0.164/round, where are you getting .223 for $0.26/round?
Mark
AlbertaGunslinger
Regular
- Location
- The Wide Open Prairie
I have the good old classic NR 858 and I would not trade it for a brand new .223 VZ58 if I could. The 858(in the sense that it is pretty much the same rifle as the military VZ58) has been in service for over 40 years and continues in service to this day. It is a rifle that is meant to work and survive in conditions that no CSA VZ58 has ever experienced. You also talk about the 858 needing to be tabbed to be reliable, that is absolutley false, most 858s are not tabbed and most 858s are very reliable. The whole "Gremlin" thing is not a super common occurance.
Need I go into the advantages of the 7.62x39mm over the .223Rem(Yes I know the .223 has its own advantages), especially in the role you will likley apply your 858/VZ58 in. Even without getting into a calibre fight, 1 the VZ58 platform was designed to be in 7.62x39mm to it will naturally work better with that cartridge, and 2 7.62x39 is cheaper to shoot(even if you reload).
Get an 858, you can trick it out or leave it like it is, shoot the heck out of it, and beat the sh!t out of it and at the end of the day it will continue chugging along. The same can't be said for the .223 VZ 58 because if nothing else breaks those crappy plastic mags are gonna fail with abuse.
Need I go into the advantages of the 7.62x39mm over the .223Rem(Yes I know the .223 has its own advantages), especially in the role you will likley apply your 858/VZ58 in. Even without getting into a calibre fight, 1 the VZ58 platform was designed to be in 7.62x39mm to it will naturally work better with that cartridge, and 2 7.62x39 is cheaper to shoot(even if you reload).
Get an 858, you can trick it out or leave it like it is, shoot the heck out of it, and beat the sh!t out of it and at the end of the day it will continue chugging along. The same can't be said for the .223 VZ 58 because if nothing else breaks those crappy plastic mags are gonna fail with abuse.
I am sure you are right about the gremlin. However, I added a tab, simply because I dont want to find out that I have the gremlin, just at the moment that bear I thought was dead, turns out not to be.
It was an expensive lesson, but I have learnt a lot about calibres and rifle design from this experience.
I have a 858 and a vz58 in both calibers.
The 7.62 rifles have been flawless. I love the reliability. Accuracy has been adequate for CQB. I would not want to compete past 100 yards with one.
The 223 rifle has 6 of the plastic mags and they work fine. I have the magwell adapter but have not yet installed it. may not, since the plastic mags work well.
The 223 had a small problem. If the bolt was being eased forward, it would hang up on the disconnect. I radiused the bolt carrer a bit, without reducing the height, and this no longer happens.
The 223 shoots handloads all the time. I use cheap 55gr FMJ bullets and surplus military ball powder. I discovered that if I load the rounds mild, the accuracy is excellent. Under an inch at 50 yards. With my old eyes, that is the best I could expect. in fact, it is better than what I expected. This is the 11.5" barrel rifle, so the sight radius is short.
The open sight has been removed and a peep installed at the back of the action cover.
The 7.62 rifles have been flawless. I love the reliability. Accuracy has been adequate for CQB. I would not want to compete past 100 yards with one.
The 223 rifle has 6 of the plastic mags and they work fine. I have the magwell adapter but have not yet installed it. may not, since the plastic mags work well.
The 223 had a small problem. If the bolt was being eased forward, it would hang up on the disconnect. I radiused the bolt carrer a bit, without reducing the height, and this no longer happens.
The 223 shoots handloads all the time. I use cheap 55gr FMJ bullets and surplus military ball powder. I discovered that if I load the rounds mild, the accuracy is excellent. Under an inch at 50 yards. With my old eyes, that is the best I could expect. in fact, it is better than what I expected. This is the 11.5" barrel rifle, so the sight radius is short.
The open sight has been removed and a peep installed at the back of the action cover.
