WWII guns for the Allies - question

Muskyhunter1

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A question for you history buffs out there. I am new to the military guns of WWII but i got thinking. The Russians had the SVT 40, the Sweds AGM42B, I know Germans used SVT 40 and others etc.

What did the Brits or Canadians have for a semi auto rifle. I know we have a sten gun but our troops must have had something that could reach out there that the average soldier could carry. The BAR would be too heavy - wasn't it?
 
The M1 Garand in .30-06 was pretty much the mainstay of the US forces.

They also had the M1 Carbine in .30 Carbine.

Off the top of my head the closest the Canadian troops had to a semi-auto rifle would be a select-fire Bren, but it was heavier than a BAR.

The Americans also fielded the M1941 Johnson Rifle in limited numbers.

BTW, Sweden was a neutral nation during the war.
 
In ww2, only the US soldier was equipped with a semi-auto rifle: the Garand... Later, they also had the smaller M1 carbine semi-auto and the M2 carbine with full-auto capability.

Everybody else in that war had a bolt action except for those with a submachine-gun, an automatic support rifle (bren, BAR, Degtiarev, etc) or a machine-gun.

Late in the war, semiauto rifle and full-auto capable rifle became available to the Germans (mp44, fg42, etc) and Soviet (AVT, SVT, etc) but they were always in small numbers compared to the bolt-action...

Canadian and British troops only had Lee-Enfield rifles, Sten submachine-guns, Bren ligth machine-guns, as well as US made Thompson smg as lend-lease weapons...

The sweedish AG42b was issued in smaller numbers that the Muuser 1896 too...
 
The Brits got a few Garands through Lend / Lease, and there's a few pictures of troops from 1 Can Para (who served in a British division) with them, but only very small numbers and it would not have been usual to see troops carrying them due to the ammunition issue.
 
Actually 8,000 M1 Garands, 1,515 1943 Colt 1911A1's and 80,000 US Rifle of Model 1917 (P17's) were purchased by the Canadian Government during the early part of the war, but troops going overseas were generally issued weapons and kit that their British Army counterparts were.
 
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Some Canadians operating or attached to American Units during WWII were issued the U.S. M1 Garand rifle and American Equipment.

The advantages of the bolt action rifle was that it was cheaper to make, it operated under severe conditions, and it was much easier to train troops to use it. It was not as sensitive to ammunition that was needed to function, and had less operating parts to the system.

When we look at industrial capability, the United States was far ahead of anyone else at production. The question of the Sherman Tank is an example of this, along with the massive amount of aircraft built and used during WWII by the Allies, once the USA entered the war.

It is also a matter of Military thinking. The Germans, Russians and British had gone through WWI with all the mud and battle conditions just 20 years before, so that was a factor, and production lines existed to turn out the older bolt action rifles or modified versions of them. A proven system, the bolt action filled the requirements of each nation as a battle rifle.

At the start of WWII, most American troops were still armed with the 1903 Springfield rifle and the number of M1 Garand rifles were few. In fact, Remington produced a modified Springfield during WWII to augment the Garand production.

A significant change of thinking came during mid-WWII with the Germans facing mass Russian Infantry attacks, backed up by well made Tanks. The Germans started thinking about short ranged "assault" cartridges designed for 300 meters of less, and larger heavier upgunned tanks to combat the T-34.

The Swedes did develop the AG-42 semi-automatic rifle, but issued two per squad, with the rest of the squad, (except for the squad leader who usually had a sub-machine gun,) were armed with the m/96 or m/38 bolt action rifle. In actuality, most of the Swedish Infantry still used the longer m/96 rifle and the m/38 short rifle was issued to Artillery, Service and other troops.
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In times of war sometimes the best strategy is to put out cheaper stuff in bigger numbers than to put out more expensive better equipped kit in lower numbers.

Panthers beat Shermans one on one all day. The idea was never to be one on one. Germans couldn't produce their expensive heavy tanks as fast as the allies could get Shermans into combat.

Think of those nature shows, with the ant colony taking down a bigger predator. Just overwhelm.

Back on topic.... Garands and Enfields. Good combo haha.
 
In WW2 the Prince Rupert City Police were issued US Model 1911a1's and Model 1928 SMG's because there was thousand's of US and Canadian troops stationed there waiting for the Japanese invasion of Alaska. S&W 38 's didn't make it, so the Canadian Commander of "Allied Forces" ordered the above guns issued out of "stores". A friend of mine was a member of the city police until 1946 when the RCMP took over and they all quit! He told me that it worked because that was issue of the US MP's who they worked with.
 
In times of war sometimes the best strategy is to put out cheaper stuff in bigger numbers than to put out more expensive better equipped kit in lower numbers.

Panthers beat Shermans one on one all day. The idea was never to be one on one. Germans couldn't produce their expensive heavy tanks as fast as the allies could get Shermans into combat.

Think of those nature shows, with the ant colony taking down a bigger predator. Just overwhelm.

Back on topic.... Garands and Enfields. Good combo haha.


Yeah, that sure works. It took 5 Shermans to take out one Panther. This worked, except of course for the crews of the first 4 Shermans ;)
 
Yeah, that sure works. It took 5 Shermans to take out one Panther. This worked, except of course for the crews of the first 4 Shermans ;)

in reality tanks rarely encountered each other, and when there are less than 10k panthers and tigers combined in all of the german army in the whole war, and of those, most are being sent at the russians, as one of more than 50k shemans made in only 2 years, your not likely to ever see one. your more likely to find a pz 3 or 4, out classed by the sherman until the latest panzer 4s, which were not much better than the sherman
 
A question for you history buffs out there. I am new to the military guns of WWII but i got thinking. The Russians had the SVT 40, the Sweds AGM42B, I know Germans used SVT 40 and others etc.

What did the Brits or Canadians have for a semi auto rifle. I know we have a sten gun but our troops must have had something that could reach out there that the average soldier could carry. The BAR would be too heavy - wasn't it?

Why "must" they? They had what they had, and they used it as best they could. The .303 British cartridge was effective at ranges not significantly less than the .30-06 or the 7.62x54Russian. Nobody fought the Swedes, so their semi-auto AG42 isn't relevant. The vast majority of Russian troops used bolt action Mosin-Nagants, and although the Germans used captured SVT-40s on the Eastern front, even there most of them used the bolt-actions Kar98s. Only the Americans had a semi-auto service rifle on general issue, and that was because they happily were developing one at the right time in the pre-war period and had such a small army then which was greatly enlarged a few years after everyone else's so conditions were right for them to produce and issue that new semi-auto in great numbers.
 
A question for you history buffs out there. I am new to the military guns of WWII but i got thinking. The Russians had the SVT 40, the Sweds AGM42B, I know Germans used SVT 40 and others etc.

What did the Brits or Canadians have for a semi auto rifle. I know we have a sten gun but our troops must have had something that could reach out there that the average soldier could carry. The BAR would be too heavy - wasn't it?

The Brits and Canadians didn't have a semi, because they had Lee Enfields. Lee Enfields are the fastest turnbolt battle rifle ever made, with great bolt ergonomics, a short bolt throw, and a ten round magazine, reloadable in a jiffy with chargers. Somebody who knows what he's doing can lay down rather a lot of fire with one; the record is 38 hits in 60 seconds, 300 yards, prone, at a 12" target, set in 1913 by Sgt.-Instructor "Snowy" Snoxall of the British Army. When the German Army first encountered Brits armed with Lee-Enfields in 1914, they thought they were getting machinegunned.

Lee-Enfields rock.

We didn't get semis until the FN-FAL came along.
 
I may be wrong on this but I have a far off memory of the Swedes selling some AgM42 B and C models to the Finns. The same goes for the M38 and M96 rifles.

I realize the main battle rifles the Finns used were all Russian, including SVT 38 and 40s but they did field a lot of rifles in the 6.5x55 chamberings as well.

IIRC, they even bought a bunch of Arisakas from the Brits.
 
I could be completely wrong about this but other than the SFK volunteers using the 6.5mm m/96 and m/21 (Swedish BAR) during the Winter War, most Swedish firearms were relegated to rear area troops in the Continuation and Lapland War. It was a question of ammo supply. Same with the Japanse Arisakas.

m/38 were issued to Swedish supply and artillery troops so not even sure how many of these made it to Finland.

I don't believe the Swedes would have sent the AG42 to Finland as I think they only had enough for themselves. And again you would have ammo supply issues.
 
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