.308 load/ speed reccomendation For Moose?

NathanR

NathanR

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Hey guys (not to sure if this should be in the "hunting" forum),

I have just picked up a pack of 165 Core Locked Hornady SP for my Savage 99 in .308 win.

I have them sitting above 38.5g of XBR 8208, which if my manual is correct should be pushing them out to around 2300 FPS. My idea was to send the lighter bullet (165 opposed to say a 180g+) down the track faster so that I can reach out a little farther.

My question is will this be enough to take a 300yd shot at a moose with sufficient penetration to ensure an ethical kill? This is my first season hunting moose and I have concerns that my .308 will be light to do the trick for the longer shots.

Thanks,
Nate
 
not familiar with that powder but starting loads in hodgdon manual give about 2500fps with max loads at about 2700fps. that is a very light load i think a heavier load would be better for your purpose
 
Only you will be able to answer your own question.

I highly suspect you already have a very accurate load for similar bullets.

Start there and refine it, if needed.

As far as reaching out a little further, WON'T HAPPEN.

The lighter bullet sheds energy faster than the heavier bullet so it slows down faster and therefore completes its downward arc faster as it loses velocity and momentum.

The slight difference between the 165 and 180 grain bullets would only be noticeable on paper as far as energy and trajectory goes. If you are doing well with 180s, stick to them.

If your game animals are that far out, you will be reaching for straws using your logic.

The biggest and best thing you can do, is get out an practise under field conditions and get familiar with how well you can hold your rifle at the distances you wish to shoot at.

Getting out into the field and familiarizing yourself with your rifle's/your own capabilities will far outweigh any bullet weight/perfomance issues you presume to have.

Accuracy and learning how to dertimine distance, as well as memorizing the compensation for bullet drop or wind drift at different distances is paramount to a clean kill at any range.

Practise, practise and more practise is the key to a successful shot on game.

The best shots and hunters I know, shoot a minimum of 200 rounds per year out of their hunting rifles. They do this at different distances under field conditions etc to keep astride of the rifle's performance. Especially if they shoot other rifles as well.

To many people work on the magic bullet, rather than on their skill levels.
 
A savage 99 at 300 yards? Try getting in a little closer like 75 yards.
Watching a wounded critter run off will make you think about your question next season.
I practice off hand shooting regularly. I've never shot anything outside of 75m. Can't guarantee a well placed shot while dragging my ass through the bush. I use 180gr SP on bear and moose.
A .308 will travel through the vitals on a moose/bear and exit the other side up to 200m (as long as the bullet isn't hitting large bones). This I know. Outside of that i can't say. I just don't shoot with any more range. Good luck on your hunt.
Some mall ninja will come along any second now telling you about his 1000m kill with a sniper rig.
 
It was my first batch with the 308 (ever) so I didn't want to press the rifle until I knew how it would react to the load. My next set is gunna be around 40g I think an we'll see from there.

As for the 300 yrd shot I was thinking the same. I have no interest in winging an animal an allowing it to hide somwhere an bleed. I am glad to hear a 308 will poke clean through at around 200m (I had kinda figured, but like to see what more experienced guys have to say). The guys I'm going with are swearing by these 338 Win Mags, which I'd use but I don't have the $$ right now for a dedicated rifle. The 308 is what I got, so its what's getting used.

You guys figure 200 is the max range ?
 
Your load is very mild. Work up to 43 gr, if you can.

As for power, the 308 is a bit much for moose if you can hit the boiler room. The limit is your shooting ability, not the rifle.


Unless you are shooting from a rest, 300 is not an ethical shot. 200 is pushing it.

The 165 will do fine. I prefer 180s and use them on both deer and moose.
 
load .308 hornady 180 gr SP 42 grs of Varget. Uphill 75-100 metres.
Exit wound.
P5050024.jpg

Entrance. I'm pulling the hide back for clarity.
P5050032.jpg
 
i've got a 99 and use 180's for EVERYTHING- 43-44 grains of 748, but but i won't take a shot over 267-300 yards max- too much drop- and that's 40+ years of high altitude experience
btw, that gives you a m/v of around 2500-2600- factory is 2610- so you're HANDICAPPING your rifle- ie making it short legged
 
Last edited:
bearhunter said:
Only you will be able to answer your own question.

I highly suspect you already have a very accurate load for similar bullets.

Start there and refine it, if needed.

As far as reaching out a little further, WON'T HAPPEN.

The lighter bullet sheds energy faster than the heavier bullet so it slows down faster and therefore completes its downward arc faster as it loses velocity and momentum.

The slight difference between the 165 and 180 grain bullets would only be noticeable on paper as far as energy and trajectory goes. If you are doing well with 180s, stick to them.

If your game animals are that far out, you will be reaching for straws using your logic.

The biggest and best thing you can do, is get out an practise under field conditions and get familiar with how well you can hold your rifle at the distances you wish to shoot at.

Getting out into the field and familiarizing yourself with your rifle's/your own capabilities will far outweigh any bullet weight/perfomance issues you presume to have.

Accuracy and learning how to dertimine distance, as well as memorizing the compensation for bullet drop or wind drift at different distances is paramount to a clean kill at any range.

Practise, practise and more practise is the key to a successful shot on game.

The best shots and hunters I know, shoot a minimum of 200 rounds per year out of their hunting rifles. They do this at different distances under field conditions etc to keep astride of the rifle's performance. Especially if they shoot other rifles as well.

To many people work on the magic bullet, rather than on their skill levels.
Click to expand...

Excellent, very well expressed post.Right on the money!
 
Couldn't agree more with Bearhunters comments also. I would say more deer and moose have fallen to the 30-30 and .303 than all other rifles put together. I laugh when I read a gun rag extolling this rifle with that bullet for this type of game and you better stick to it or else.

The key is find a load that is accurate in your rifle, then practise until you can shoot an ice cream pail offhand consistently at a certain distance. I started my boys out at 50 yards and worked our way out until they both found there limits. They each would fire at least 500 rounds a year on various outings. By the way both of them can shoot to 250 yards offhand and they know that is there limit. They also know they can stretch it to 300 if they can find a rest and have the time, they know there bullet drop and they know there rifles.

I have a second cousin that uses a .243 for everything (except moose/bear .30/06) and he is an absolute deadly shot. He head shoots only and will not take the shot unless it is a head shot. He has used the same rifle for over 45 years now and is on his third barrel. He cuts the antlers off and throws them in a pile behind his garage. When I was a teenager it was about 5 feet high and now that I am over 50 it has increased to higher than the garage and about twice as round at the base.

I think it was Chuck O'Conner's that said "Be aware of the man with one gun, he knows how to use it".
 
I shot a bull 2 years ago at 290yds with my .308. The windage was tricky, but the bullet did what it was supposed to.

165gr Hornady Interbond, 44gr IMR 4895, 2750 fps.

You are about 350fps too slow for that bullet. Even my 180gr load runs 2600fps.
 
A couple of things..

(1) XBR 8208 has a burn rate similar to N133 or H335 (http://www.lapua.com/upload/reloading/reloadingburningratechart2011.pdf), for hunting purposes with medium to heavy bullets this powder is too fast, and diffcult to reach velocity without pressure. There are some FTR shooters who use it in small primer Palma cases, and run VERY high pressures to get a competitve edge but this is NOT appropriate for a hunting round.

I would suggest RL-17, you can easily get a 180gn bullet to 2600 fps, this should be more than sufficient.

Using RL-17

With a 180 grn Hornady Interlock you shoud get MV of 2650 fps and 300 yard velocity of 2100 fps

With a 165 gn interlock MV would be ~ 2800 fps and 300 yard velocity ~2200 fps
 
I've tossed together a batch tonight at 41.2g, Hornady manual says it'll be going around 2500fps, so I'll see how these go and hopefully step it up another notch.

Hunter64, I completely agree with you on one rifle ought to do it. I'm just tryin to work together a load for this ol' savage to maximize performance. It was my girL's grandfathers rifle an will likely be my only huntin rig (if I can reliably figure it out that is).

Roberti11, thank you for the advice. I will look into the slower burning powders next.
 
In one word Yes,in more words lets say you have loaded this load and sent a bare minimum of three hundred or so of this load down range and your concept of shot placement is precise then 200m is a safe range to push.

Harvesting game as a hunter should imply that your primary concern is how humane the shot is and not the bragging at camp afterwards. I have never missed a shot at an animal and with pride I can say I have passed up many more shots than I have taken.

as far as effect on target I can say anywhere outside of 100-125 yds
a 165 grn round has a snowballs chance in hell of cleanly passing through a moose unless you hit low in low density tissue. anywhere else it will open up nicely and either breakup on bones or maintain mass and stop.

NathanR said:
It was my first batch with the 308 (ever) so I didn't want to press the rifle until I knew how it would react to the load. My next set is gunna be around 40g I think an we'll see from there.

As for the 300 yrd shot I was thinking the same. I have no interest in winging an animal an allowing it to hide somwhere an bleed. I am glad to hear a 308 will poke clean through at around 200m (I had kinda figured, but like to see what more experienced guys have to say). The guys I'm going with are swearing by these 338 Win Mags, which I'd use but I don't have the $$ right now for a dedicated rifle. The 308 is what I got, so its what's getting used.

You guys figure 200 is the max range ?
Click to expand...
 
Ross, do you figure 180g would make a difference? Or for those distances it'd be necessry to have somthing heavier than a 308?

Edited-

Not that I'm trying to make the hailmary shot to end all hunt stories (the idea of a good story is to take somthing average an tell it 20 times until the final version is extraordinary).

I'm just looking for peoples opinions on this round
 
I'm a fan of mass at distance, you can achieve a very flat/anticipated trajectory from a heavier round as well as maintaining effect on target at those slower velocities at range. wind also has a hard time pushing around something heavy versus something light if their moving at the same speed.

it'll come down to personal preference but I use a 174grn round with my .303 and keep my range within 150-175yds MAX. I use 165 for deer
 
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