2 1/2 blackpowder 12g, steel shot.

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jmax857

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So I have a very old double sxs,
Its a 12gauge, probably made in the early 1900's external Hammers, and all it says on the side is "american"
It had 30 inch barrels, but a previous owner had been shooting steel shot 2 3/4 shells as they told me, and about 2 in before the end, the full choke side had a ring, or bulge as you call it.
From what I know that is common from shooting steel from a full choke.
I trimmed the barrels down to 26", that said now both sides should be "open" choke as far as I can tell.
I enjoy antique guns a lot more than a modern one, that said, to hunt waterfowl I need to use a legal load.
You may ask why not use bismuth, or hevi shot?
Because I don't have 130 dollars for a tiny little container full.
I have made a few trap loads before, but, For the most part my reloading knowledge is more towards rifle.
I have magtech 2 1/2 brass shells to load, and i only plan to use blackpowder to keep the loads safe. I have cork wads, overshot cards and I'm going to get some plastic wads.

I want to use plastic wads to protect the bore, but to stop the bp from burning them I will put a cork wad inbetween.
One thing I would like to know is there anything I can put in with the steel shot to help it compress a little when it exits the barrel?
Does anyone have any input on what they do/use?
Are trap wads sufficient or do I need to find steelshot wads?


I'm confident that with a light blackpowder load I won't do any damage to the gun, I'm sure that a lot of people are going to post telling me its unsafe and I'm going to blow the gun up, but please don't bother.
 
I have reservations about the use of steel shot in an antique.
If you are determined to do it, the only shotcups that would make sense are the ones designed specifically for steel.
 
Steel has to be pushed hard to be effective, I would load it wioth black powder, and a good sized load of Bismuth or Nioce shot - I load both in my vintage SXS guns and kill geese and ducks with no problem.
Cat
 
I would rather use/enjoy an antique than let it hang on my wall. A lot may say I could destroy the value, but since the value is next to worthless, I'm not worried.
I had a thread on another forum about an antique indian trade musket, I was using it for rabbit hunting and it had no finish left. Every time I used it in the damp weather, it would rust over. I blued it, and got a lot of grief from other members, the gun only had a value of about 100 dollars, and made it more usable and I enjoy it alot more, and that's all that matters to me.

Bismuth and nice shot are just way way too expensive for me right now or I would, I don't really need to shoot farther than 25 yards to be happy, so I hope with blackpowder I can get that.
 
Wads for steel shot have thick petals to protect the barrel from abrasion and your thin barrels will need that. If you are determined to use steel shot in 2 1/2" shells you will have a low velocity load with an ounce or less of shot that will not be a very effective killer from your sawed-off/ no choke cylinder bores unless you shoot your birds really close. The really effective modern shells are all 1400 fps or faster with steel.... I use Kent Faststeel at 1550 fps and they are deadly on geese and ducks. The old 1,200 fps loads were too often just wounders.

To max the use of the limited case capacity try a thin (.060?) card wad over the powder with no filler wad between that and the steel shot cup. Try a few test loads on paper to determine the max effective range before shooting wild birds.... you may be disappointed in the results. Better use of the gun might be for upland birds with conventional light loads of lead shot. Good luck.
 
Close in you could probably make do with light loads and a paper shot cup.Use caution not to push it too far.After all you don't want to lose fingers or a eye to make a cheap $100.00 shotgun work.
 
I definately plan on doing some land tests before I take shooting ducks yes.
I hadn't thought of the overshot card instead of a cork wad, seems a good idea.
I only really planned on using 1oz of shot, I will see how much power they have and load from there.
I normally use the same volume of shot and blackpowder, same with steel I assume? Or a little bit higher amount of powder to get some speed?
I have a bag of steel coming friday, then the tests start.
 
Steel is a lot lighter than lead. You likely aren't going to get an ounce of steel shot into the shell, given the space available in a 2 1/2" case, bulky black powder and the necessary shotcup/wad. Once you get the shot, find out how many pellets are going to actually be in the shell. Consider that you have cylinder barrels. I suspect that between pellet count and lack of any choke you are going to have a really close range combination.
The choke was originally damaged by steel shot in the proper shotcup. If you use something other than a shot cup intended for steel, you may find yourself with scored bores.
Something else to consider - brass cases are thin walled, compared to other cases. The fit of the shotcup may be loose.
 
I shoot 2.5" shels, and I can tell you there's no way you'll get an ounce of steel in there. I'm shooting 3/4 - 7/8 ounces with smokeless, and it can be a little tough. With the larger volume of both black and steel shot, I don't see it.
 
Yes, I said an ounce of steel withoutt thinking about it being a lighter material, I measure my shot by volume and not weight, I was picturing 1oz of lead, and to use the same volume of shot in steel form.
 
Why not use Hodgdon T7 powder instead of real BP. It is more potent than BP by about 15%. You will use less than you you would if using BP, thus freeing up space for your shot load. Or you can use the same volume and get greater velocity. Of course, you have to keep pressures within acceptable ranges.
 
jmax857 said:
I definately plan on doing some land tests before I take shooting ducks yes.
I hadn't thought of the overshot card instead of a cork wad, seems a good idea.
I only really planned on using 1oz of shot, I will see how much power they have and load from there.
I normally use the same volume of shot and blackpowder, same with steel I assume? Or a little bit higher amount of powder to get some speed?
I have a bag of steel coming friday, then the tests start.
Click to expand...

1 oz of steel shot is more volume than 1 oz of lead shot. 1 oz of steel shot might be hard to fit into a 2.5" shotshell.
 
I would suggest checking out 7620 smokeless, I am pretty sure it can be loaded down to about 7000 psi. As Tiriaq and Ol Flinter have said; steel shot cups have much thicker petals. I think that even with a cork wad you will still get blow by and when using black powder that probably means you will potentially get a plastic build up. I have chronographed 80 gr / 1 1/8 oz lead black powder loads and if my memory is correct, I got below 1100 fps from them. I think even with light smokeless loads you will be getting around 1100 fps or a bit more or in other words and fairly close range combination

cheers mooncoon
 
If you can foresake the black powder to get more space for wads and pellets then Mooncoon's idea of using IMR 7625 or even 4756 might work for you to keep pressures down. I have loaded 25.5 gr 7625 with 1 1/8 oz of bismuth shot for my Rem 1889 SxS and it seems to work fine at about 1200 fps. However, I used Federal 2 3/4" plastic hulls and regular field wads. I have killed ducks and geese with that load. I am not recommending you try 25.5 gr in your loads - all I am saying is it works for me in my situation. You are in a unique situation and on your own - but we would certainly like to hear from you as to how it all works out... Safety first, as always.
 
I'm not stuck on bp, I just have a lot more expierience with it. I know it does not create enough pressure to be unsafe with my gun.
If I can find some 7625 or 4756 in my gun room I will definately try it. I will look in my reloader bible and see if I have any powders even close to that, also if I have a cork wad or overshot card I should be able to cut the bumper or whatever that piece behind the shot cup on the wad Is to make some extra space ,
 
I hate to revive an old thread but I hope my leranings can help the next guy.
After trying over and over again to get good power out of the 2 1/2 with steel is pointless to say the least.
I tried different smokeless powders and wad combinations. Patterns are horrible and the velocity was always lacking I have another antuque single shot with full barrel and 2 1/2 chambers and even with the longer barrel.
Im sure someone has done it. But I cant see it being reasonable, besides paying through the nose for bismuth non toxic hunting with the oldie seems to be a bust.
 
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only time i ever got anywhere with steel is when it was loaded with smokeless in a modern load for a modern gun

stick to lead in these old guns

also cutting them like you did will throw off the regulation and there may even be a gap between the barrels from experience blackpowder residue get i there good idea to fill it
 
Sounds like a nice old gun. Exposed hammers are my thing.

If it was mine, I would use the lead and leave the steel alone.
 
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